Ka-Jo Duck Skiff

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Britt Conner

Member
Help! I am building a boat and I need some help. Is Titebond III, Gorilla Glue, Liquid Nails ok to use to glue the ribs together? Or, is there something else that I could use?


Thank you for any advice.
Britt
 
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Britt, Of the three choices I would pick Titebond III but to be perfectly honest I think most would agree that marine epoxy would be even a better choice.
 
Depends on exactly what kind of boat you're building. I've used old fashioned, two part resorcinol glue, epoxy, Titebond, and even PL 500. A lot of guys are using 3M 5200 with a lot of success.


The resorcinol is a two part, dry catalyst/liquid resin, quick drying, waterproof, hard setting, and pretty much bullet proof glue. I'm not sure it's even available anymore though, or where to even find it. It a little difficult to work with. You have to mix as you go, the leftovers harden in about ten minutes, the joints have to be tight, and it is pricey. Probably some of the best you can by however.


Epoxy is pretty good. It is probably the most commonly used of all the adhesives, and it has to be mixed just like the resorcinol glue. It too is a hard setting glue, which means it dries hard and solid. It will gap somewhat, meaning the joints don't have to be totally tight. There are many variations and even some additives that can be used with it to increase it's versatility. With the correct prep, epoxy will even stick to just about anything.


Although I haven't used it in boat building, Titebond is awfully popular for all kinds of woodworking. I use it all of the time, just never used it in boatbuilding. The joints have to be tight, takes about twenty four hours to harden, is advertised as water resistant, and can be cleaned with water. (before it sets-up).


Even though not really recommended for this purpose, I built a layout boat using mostly PL 500 and am very pleased with the results. I haven't seen any PL 500 lately though. It may have also gone the way of the dinosaur. PL 500 was rated for outdoor use. It was nice to work with. Very economical, it came in both the 10 oz., as well as the quart sized caulking gun tubes. It is strong, will gap, is not a real hard setting type of adhesive, and had fairly long working time. A drawback however, was the setting time. I wouldn't trust it until it set for a couple days at least. It probably doesn't reach full strength though until about a week.


Probably one of the newest glues to reach the market is 3M's 5200. It's made specifically for Marine work. It too comes in 10 oz. gun tubes. It is a soft setting glue, will gap a little, but takes a while to set up, and is kinda pricey. I bought some for my latest project. I think I paid about $12.00 a tube. So far, I've used four tubes.


I'm sure some of the actual smart guys on here will chime in with their thoughts to help confuse you even more than I did, but I tried.


Good luck!


Jon
 
Help! I am building a boat and I need some help. Is Titebond III, Gorilla Glue, Liquid Nails ok to use to glue the ribs together? Or, is there something else that I could use?


Britt ,There is a kick ass product called Plexus....you can get it from James town distributors
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I have used epoxies for marine use and had great success. I use West Systems with their additives. I use it for my ice boat which gets a lot of g forces and stress. Good tech services to help you. West marine carries the products or online is cheaper.
I've not used 5200. Steve might be a little more help with the boat and decoy sides.
 
5200 is what the guys in down east NC use. I used it to put my duckhunter II together 7 years ago. It's 5:22am right now and in 8 minutes I'm hitting the water to shoot a few blue bills in it.

Who else likes to check this forum while they drink coffee and wake up before a duck hunt?

5200 is a 3m product. If you've never heard of it don't worry. Ask for it. THey'll know what it is and won't think your crazy.
 
Thank you guys. I am building an 18ft x 48" wide plywood on frame flat skiff designed by Spira International. (it's not on his website yet) If you want to see a similar design, check out bateau.com and his 18ft flats stalker. The designs are similar but construction methods are very different. I have all of the frames cut out and the building jig is together. I am hoping to have the chines, frames, transom and keelson done before I have to go to work. The design calls for screws and glue on the frames. The outside, I will fiberglass tape all seams and put 12oz biaxial fabric on the bottom (not sure if that weight of fabric is needed the plans call for 6oz).


If anyone has any other thoughts on suitable glue types now that there is more information posted, please speak up!


Thanks,
Britt
 
Britt~

Your design sounds similar to the garveys we use on Long Island for clamming, gunning, etc.

For glueing the frames themselves with screws, Titebond III is probably comparable to epoxy in performance. Once you start fastening the plywood skin to the framing, though, I would be tempted to use 3M 5200. It is intended as an adhesive caulk - not a glue per se. I would use it for fastening the skin because it forms a rubber-like substance than holds incredibly well, but - at least as important - it also prevents moisture from lodging between the plywood and the framing by filling those spaces - and so helps to prevent rot. Also, because it is a caulk, your hull will be watertight even before you 'glass it.

Question: Does the builder recommend screwing the plywood to the frames? If so, consider using bronze boat nails instead of screws. In my experience, they are better than screws for this purpose because you do not have to countersink them as you would for a flathead screw. Thus, you maintain the full strength of all of the plies. You may need to pre-drill for heavy (1/2") plywood, but they are still much faster to install than screws. I mail-order mine from Hamilton Marine or Jamestown Distributors.

One other thought: I have seen some guys fasten the plywood skin to each cross-member (floorbeams, bulkheads). Generally, it is better practice to mechanically fasten plywood only along the longitudinals (chine logs, inwales, stringers, keelson). Cross-members (other than transom and at bow) are not fastened because the holes perforate and so weaken the plywood.

Hope this helps - I look forward to seeing your progress.

SJS
 
Frames on my jig... I wanted to see how it looks. I will make everything square before proceeding again. I ended up using 3M 5200 and screws on the frames. I got tired of working with it for today, will start again tomorrow and work on the transom and keelson (lord knows I will need help with the keelson...) Hopefully once I finish those 2 items, I can add the chines and sheer clamp.


Steve, I was thinking of ordering a product called Raptor nails. They are polymer fasteners... Have you had any experience with them?




Britt

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Britt~

This is exciting! You do nice work!

I know nothing about Raptor Nails. I would imagine that if they are used in addition to the 5200 (which can do all the work) they might be a nice choice. Metal fasteners have a way of attracting condensation, even through 'glass.

Question: Will there be weep holes to allow water to drain between frames? Could either be on both sides of keelson or inside each of the chines.

All the best,

SJS
 
the keel is 2 x 4 lumber and if you look at the frames you will see the bottom of the frames have a slot cut out. That slot is 5" long, so to answer your question, yes there will be holes that run on each side of the keel to allow drainage/leakage. I will keep putting up pictures as the work progresses. If you guys see me messing up somewhere, let me know. I am fixing to go work on the keelson... that part seems to intimidate me the most.
 
Britt~

From your photos, it seems like the keelson is mostly flat - with just a bit of rocker up foreward. If so, fasten the foreward end first, then use the length of the board to give you the leverage as you work aft. Also, it's a good idea, after fastening each of the foreward frames, to put a heavy clamp on it and keep it there until the keelson is fully fastened. That way, you will not be pulling your brand-new fasteners out (up).

SJS
 
Well, I made the scarf joints for the keel, and finished up the transom. Just waiting on glue to dry. I also cut out the frames where the chine and sheer clamp will attach. Slow working, but measuring everything several times then cutting. Hopefully tomorrow I can work on the keel and post some more pictures.
 
To make 5200 cure faster, spritz it with a little water before joining the pieces.

Mark W
 
Well didn't make much headway today. I scarfed the chine log and sheer clamps. I dry fitted them, pre-drilling each hole. I will resume posting with pictures once I get back from work in a week. Please everyone, Have a safe and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!


Britt
 
Avoid Gorrilla Glue. It works great initally and will last a few years, then becomes brittle and the bonds break. The best is thickened epoxy, but it's a pain to mix it up, thicken it, clamp it and wait as long as you need to wait to use it for anything but boat building. If I were buidling a boat though, that's the only glue I would use. PL brand premium construction adhesive is cheap, easy to apply, covers a large gap, cures in a few hours, and creates a fairly strong bond. I have used it to build all sorts of things, including pushpoles. I make wooden pushpoles that are abused, left out in the water, etc, and I've been making them for about 10 or 12 years. PL has not failed me on a pushpole, or on anthing else I've made with it.

Ed.
 
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Ed, is that the PL 500 Landscape by Loctite that you are referring to? I saw some and thought about picking some up. I could use it to seal around the seams on the inside of the hull. Ed, I have looked at your boat, what weight fiberglass did you use? My plans call for 6oz, but I was thinking of possibly going heavier.... 10 -12oz.


I attached a picture of the chine installed. This is a bigger boat than I was imagining. Can't wait until I get back to work on it some more.


Britt

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No. I see now it's called "Locktite PL brand Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive". They have it at Lowe's.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_100575-69-1335944_0__?productId=3048733&Ntt=glue&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dglue&facetInfo=

Which boat do you mean, Britt? Honestly I'd have to Google my own boat and look at one of my websites, which I'm not sure if they even exist anymore, to answer your question for sure. Seems like I had 6 oz biaxial with 3.5 oz tightweave over that on the bottom of the Peregrine with just the 3.5 oz tightweave on the deck, and I can't remember for the Kara except they have some Kevlar on the bottom which turned out to be a good thing as the surviving boat I use now really takes a pounding! Probably the same thing on the Kara too except for the Kevlar from the nose to just beyond the first rib on both ends.

Ed.
 
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