More carving help needed

J

jon

Active member
First, I want to thank you for any information you might be willing to give me. I am in the process of attempting my first carving project and have already gleaned so much from this site. After a few weeks dabbling in the realm of decoy carving, I have quickly discovered that the art some of you turn out is out of this world. Wow!!


So my questions...

Gluing and Sealing Wood and Painting birds.

When gluing wood birds together do you use "Elmer's" wood glue? (or is there a better and more durable product?)

Do you only seal hollowed out wood birds or do you seal solid gunners as well?

What sealer is best? Is there an affordable product from a local hardware store I should start with before using something "more professional"?

Are birds primed before painting?

What brands of paint? Oils? Acrylic? Special brushes?


Remember....I am a beginner to the tenth power!!! I also plan to do this forever....

Thanks for any and all information...Jon


Also...if there are any threads that you may have posted in the past that may be worth my reading -or re-reading, please fell free to post them for me here. I have done several searches and have come up with a few...but any and all are welcome. Thank you.
 
might be helpful if you let us know where you live--If you live nearby, help is a lot easier one on one. I live in delaware, so if you are close, give me a shout at:
gwdecoys@verizon.net
It ain't about art, it's about making hunting tools!
 
Thanks George. I am waaaay out West!! But trust me... I would take you up on that offer if I were closer.
 
Jon~

I'll be happy to help however I can. And, as you have noted, there are many very accomplished carvers on this site.

Are you carving gunning birds or decorative? By hand or with power (e.g., Foredom Tool) ?

Glueing: Whether gunning stool or decorative "mantelpiece" birds, I always use a good marine epoxy. I have used several brands over the years - just am finishing up a supply of System III and just ordered from U S. Composites. Only advice is to avoid those formulated for a 1:1 mix ratio or "5-minute" types - I am not certain they'll hold up under gunning use. System III is 1:2 and US Composites is 1:3.

If mating surfaces are not perfect, you can add fillers (like Cabosil aka fumed silica, colloidal silica) to thicken. I clamp with a single medium-sized Jorgensen wood clamp with padded jaws. You want to ,make sure the seam is tight but not squeeze out (starve) all of the epoxy. I let it cure overnight and I wipe of most of drips as it starts to cure after a couple of hours.

NOTE: Any epoxy will dull fine edges - so plan to finish around the seams with coarse sandpaper or a "disposable" blade. I carve by hand. I use an X-acto blade # 22 alot (entire head, some body details) - so, edge is not precious (blade is about 50 cents each).

Sealing: I seal all my gunning birds with 2 coats of Spar Varnish (any hardware store) - wait 24 hours between coats; sand final coat with 150 or 220 grit.

Priming: Gesso is a primer (ground) made for artists. It is an acrylic base thickened with gypsum dust (for white); you can also get grey or black Gesso. I use it as both a primer and a flattening agent with acrylic paints - either tubes or flat latex. I prime in a tone approximately the same as the final color/tone. For instance, on a Broadbill, I would prime the head, breast and tail section with black gesso; the sides with white, and the back and bill with a mix of the two. Then, when I put final coats on (latex for gunners), covering is easy and any wear from use will reveal an undercoat close to the top coat.

Gesso also comes in a variety of viscosities/thicknesses. Many guys use a thick gesso as a primer to get a rough texture - applying with either the end of a brush or a sponge. This keeps shine down. Thicker gessoes can also be used with graining combs to look like vermiculation.

What species are you starting with? Wood? Cork? Gunner? Fancy?

Hope this helps!

SJS
 
Steve...Thank you!

I will be starting with all wood gunners. I know my painting skills lack so I will begin with surf scoters. (a rig of 6)

I have a dremmel tool, and a bandsaw, a couple of belt sanders, and a drill press.... as well as a whole slough of hand tools. All of these are used and were picked up dirt cheap...but you have to start somewhere right?

I have carved several bodies and head in the past with only a pocket knife...but they are still raw, and I became frustrated with the my limited "knifing" abilities.

I have worked up a few bodies with the power tools and have found them to be much easier for me.

The whole process is so challenging.... plus I'm a perfectionist (with very little skill), which isn't helping much.
 
btw... what is the difference between a dremmel and a foredem?
 
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Jon~

I use a Dremel for minor details: final size of eye, occasional shaping in hard to reach spots.

With the bandsaw and the drill press you've got the key power tools. I use a 1/4" blade, 6 or 8 teeth per inch, in my bandsaw; 3/8 inch will do in a pinch. A 1" Forstner bit is optimal (see recent string) for hollowing. I use brad bits for eye hole and depth before I saw out plan view (from above) of heads: a 7/16 or 1/2" is great for eye sockets.

Otherwise, I use hand tools:

Nice sharp drawknife for major shaping.
Stanley Surform (the long, flat type - very useful around the breast.
Coarse rasp.

If you want to carve in body details like rollout (wing pocket) or primary groups, a set of small gouges and parting tools is handy - lots of control.

A set of coarse riffler rasps is handy for shaping, especially around the neck.

If you visit: http://www.dec.ny.gov/dectv/dectv114.html It's a 4-minute video - it shows me carving a Pintail (for my Dad's 80th birthday) about 8 years ago. It's not a tutorial but shows you a bit of how I go about carving a gunner.

I gather a bunch of guys use power drum sanders (inflatable type) for sanding bodies. There may be one in my future but I tend to be a one-bird-at-a-time carver - so I sand by hand.

I've never carved a Skunkhead Coot (Surf Scoter) - but you may inspire me to make one later this year.

All the best,

SJS
 
I have worked up a few bodies with the power tools and have found them to be much easier for me.
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Jon, My earlier post wasn't to disparage Dremel flex shafts, but since you indicate that you are planning on hogging out bodies with a power tool, you will find that the heavier Foredom, Weecher, or Pfingst flex-shaft tools will be capable of handling that task, utilizing heavier cutters than a Dremel can accomodate. They are tools that were favored by patternmakers and are built to handle heavier work. Best, Bob
 
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Jon

May I suggest buying "Making Decoys The Century - Old Way" by Grayson Chesser & Curtis Badger, and "Duck Decoys, How To Make Them, How To Paint Them, How to Rig them" by Eugene Connett.

$$ Well Spent........ Unless you live close to Obi-Wan.
 
Jon

May I suggest buying "Making Decoys The Century - Old Way" by Grayson Chesser & Curtis Badger, and "Duck Decoys, How To Make Them, How To Paint Them, How to Rig them" by Eugene Connett.

$$ Well Spent........ Unless you live close to Obi-Wan.
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I recommend getting those books as well. Yet, they don't cover foredomizing. A newer book like from Tom Matus does. Although the foredom isn't for everyone. Mine is for fine tuning the hollowing process only. All the carving is done be hand. I like the peace and quiet.
 
Thanks George. I am waaaay out West!! But trust me... I would take you up on that offer if I were closer.
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There are carvers all over the Country. Where exactly is way out West?
 
Thank you all for the information....

Steve...I picked up some of the materials you talked about last evening. Thank you!

Andy and Vince...I will look around for a copy of those texts. Thank you!

...and Bob. I hate smart cars! haha (but am stuck with the dremmel for now)


I don't mind meeting up with some other fellas, but for now, I think I want to just cut some wood by myself. I am in no hurry, just looking to carve some ducks while I dream about the upcoming season. Once I learn a few things and hit that first level of (now what?)... I will start to seek out some local knowledge.

thanks to all!
 
Carving ducks implies that you have some to cook and cut up--Carving decoys implies a desire to make your own hunting tools.
 
Carving ducks implies that you have some to cook and cut up--Carving decoys implies a desire to make your own hunting tools.
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George...wouldn't carving imply the creation of some sort of artistic decor? I make decoys.

Chuck
 
Thanks for the clarification George. Now carving ducks is something I'm good at!! Carving decoys is still up for discussion.
 
Jon

You have the desire, and the drive, to make your own decoys. Thats 50% of it already. Start the "Old Fashion Way", and then buy the tools you want and like, as you progress and move along.

Enthusiasm, and willingness to learn will always be your best tools. From head, to heart, to hands, to your own Shootin' Blocks. Enjoy yourself, cuz your gonna have FUN, and buy bandaids.

The learning curve will be longer working by yourself, but by doing so you will develop your own style. Can't reinvent the wheel, but ya sure can mess with it alot!
 
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