My first decoy head from Rutgers' kit (pics)

NickR

NickR

Well-known member
Finally got the shaping done on this one. I can see that it has plenty of flaws, but I think I've done all I can for this particular individual and will try to improve on the next one. I'll probably gouge out the outline of the bill tonight. I should have access to a drill press on Wed eve, so I should be able to dowel the neck and make eye holes . . . that ought to be an interesting exercise! Any thoughts (pro/con) on using gorilla glue to set the eyes? If not gorilla glue, what should I use? I've been using bondo to reinforce a fiberglass boat . . . gettin good w/ that stuff!

Enjoy, let the cc or wise cracks flow!

Thanks again Mr. Rutgers.

NR

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My advice would be to use plastic wood or a plumbers epoxy to set the eyes.
I cant see the pics right now but I think Gorilla glue is the wrong way to go.
I have had good luck with a latex wood filler, forget the maker but your local
hardware store ( mines an ACE) should have something similar.
Use a water loaded paint brush to smooth it out around the eyeball and you
should be okay.
 
Looking good Nick,

I'd like to offer a few suggestions. I notice from that the bottom of the eye channels and the bottom of the jaw are a bit square yet. Another few minutes SHAVING with the knife and a little sand paper will really make it pop. I'd also suggest that if you are going to put in the line to seperate the bill and the head, burning it in may work a bit better than carving it in for you.

whatever you do, Do not use gorilla glue to set the eyes! Bondo will work, but is not forgiving at all. I prefer to use wood filler or Apoxie sculpt myselft. Keep up the good Work!

paully
 
Geoff,

The Plumber's epoxy you speak about has piqued my interest. I'm not aware of such a product. Could you elaborate on what it's like to work with? texture, set time, cost, etc?

Thanks

Paully
 
Outlining the bill now shortens the time to repaint down the road.

A little late to use a drill press now to set the eyes. What is "square" such that you can hold it under the press?

I don't bother with eyes anymore. When I did I drilled a hole, on my drill press, all the way through the outlined head before I cut out the head blank on my bandsaw. Then eyes have to be aligned correctly.

But most of the contributers here are way more fussy than I.

Gorilla glue expands & dries hard. Then it can be sanded. Doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.
 
Would it be a mistake to use gorilla glue to glue the dowel in the head? I might have some Elmer's carpenter glue.

Thanks!
NR
 
Gorilla glue for the dowel thru the head would definitely work but I never used more than Elmers carpenter glue.

I only use wood bodies for the decoys I give away. the rest are cork bodied.

I would completely assemble the decoy with glue & let the glue dry. Then I would use a 1/4 inch or so drill bit to drill by eye from top through head, cork, bottom board & keel. Then drill from bottom using the 1/4 inch hole as a guide to drill hole for dowel. Then push dowel through from bottom buttered up with a copious amount of glue.

Putty 1/4 inch hole in head with whatever you feel like. Reinforced bill with galvanized finish nail. Drove galvanized nail through head & dowel.

Used one more wood screw, backed by a washer to provide force, countersunk about 3/8 inch from top through cork all way to keel. Filled hole with "putty" of glue & cork dust.

Thus the pieces are glued & mechanically fastened.

I built my decoys before "foaming" glues like Gorilla glue were available. Using same sounds to me like a pretty good idea.
 
Pauly I use plumbers putty, one stick is yellow and the other is grey, cut off equal amounts and rub them together until they become one couler then put it into the eye socket and set the eye then smove it out around the eye with acetone, once set it is rockhard.
Also I always use wired eyes so there is no chance of them coming out.
Eddie.
 
Nick for your your first attemped that head looks fairly good to me, I allways drill a hole straight through where the eyes are going to be before I start
carving, that way the eyes are in line and one is not in front of the other.
When setting the eyes, the eye allways points to the outside of the nail on the bill, as if it was scenn eyed.
If you have any problom with this get pissed first. HeHeHe
Eddie.
 
Another type of plumber's putty has one stick that looks like a green plastic hose filled with gray putty. You cut off a chunk them knead it until it is uniform in color. I like the stuff. Billy Mayes advertises it but you can get it for 20% of the price of the TV offer if you just go to a hardware or big box store an buy it in person. It may be displayed with the glues but it is more of a putty.

Bob
 
Looks good, like someone said, round the bottom of the cheeks a bit and your good to go.

I am not sure a drill press will work at this point you don't have a flat even surface. I always drill my eyes holes with a hand drill at the point your at, just deep enough to stick some epoxy sculpt or plastic wood, not all the way through. I just eyeball it, once in a while I get eyes the aren't right, but ducks don't care. If you want to drill all the way through you will probably need to drill before you start carving.

keep at it.

bill
 
The Plumber epoxy I use is just like the others describe, except ACE has blue exterior with a white putty in
the center. I started using it when I got sick of the plastic wood drying in the can between uses.
Like someone said, a little acetone smothes in right out.

I have gone to using the Latex wood filler. Comes in a snap top tube, water clean up, and
hasnt hardened up in the tube.

For locating the eyes I use two push pins. Locate on one side where you want the eye and
place the pin there. Use that pin to locate the second pin. Look down the bill for horizontal alignment
and down from the top for front to back. You mave have to move it a couple of times to get it right.
Use the pin holes as starters for your drill.
 
Beautiful Can...I like the your carving style...Simple...Simple...Simple...It'll hunt...I have not read other post beside the first so this may be a repeat...I learned the hard way from this...You may want to drill your eyes before you start carving the head...It gives you a better reference point when the carved head is ready to set the eyes...I don't know if this came as a pattern already to close to form without the eyes drill...Which in that case it still beneficial to drill your eye through with a 1/4" drill...The great thing about nature is that it is not symmetric...It always tends to be asymmetric so if the eye sockets are slightly mismatched the birds don't care...The last duck that got that got that close to my decoy to stare at it eye to eye didn't get very far....Well, I lied...We missed 9 shells later...

Regards,

Kristan
 
latex wood filler? is that at ace? I am sick of plastic wood for the same reason plus it stinks and I get cracking and gaps when it settle at times, think I figured that out. I have gone to epoxy sculpt for the eyes, but still use plastic wood to fill screw hole in the keel and screw and washer hole for the head.

pins are a great idea, I have drilled one side then use a drill bit and push it in to make a mark.
 
Excellent start to one of your first birds. Cans are tough!

I would highly recommend Apoxie Sculpt for setting eyes. It is a two part ribbon epoxy that fairs easily with water and comes in multiple colors. It dries ROCK hard and does not expand or contract with water. I have been really pleased with it over the years.

http://www.avesstudio.com/Products/Apoxie_Sculpt/apoxie_sculpt.html

I personally would avoid Gorilla Glue with ANY decoy. I have dozens of birds where I have used Gorilla Glue for heads and keels and they have all broken down. Polyurethane glues dry very hard, and with decoys, there is a lot of expansion and contraction of materials as you go from freeze to thaw. The glue doesn't budge and the joint will eventually break down. I have now switched to Titebond II and regular epoxy.

Best,
Steve
 
Hmmmnnn... What chu teachin' at that there "Institute"?

Let's clarify this "Cheeks" / "Jaw" business. There shouldn't be any "cheeks". When looking head on at a duck, don't think in terms of a human head perched on a pencil neck. If you must think human, think NFL linebacker with his neck droppng straight from the line of the ear.
Even a duck with its neck stretched tall will only present a modified hour-glass shape when viewed head on. Any rounding of the "jaw" area is forward of the neck and it pretty much disappears when the head is viewed head-on.

Pics may be worth more-
Widgeon hen viewed front-on


View attachment neck 004 (399 x 600) (200 x 300).jpg
Same decoy viewed from the side:
View attachment neck 005 (600 x 399) (300 x 200).jpg
Newly carved fulvous-whistler front-on. Head on
this bird is held moderately high:
View attachment neck 010 (399 x 600) (200 x 300).jpg

View attachment neck 004 (399 x 600) (200 x 300).jpg
View attachment neck 005 (600 x 399) (300 x 200).jpg
View attachment neck 010 (399 x 600) (200 x 300).jpg
 
Yeah Bill, I got it at an Ace. Cant remember the brand name though. If I think of it I'll
look tonite.

Steve Brettell's idea on the pins by the way, or at least I got it from him.
 
Gentlemen,
Thanks for all the replies and encouragement. I've totally been draggin my feet on this project, but Sunday afternoon I had no responsibilities, so I just sat down and started whittling. I got a lot done and I'm pleased with the look - that feels great! I even rounded the cheeks a little and carved the bill line during lunch today. Definitely planning on using the dremel on the next bill line . . . we'll see how that goes! No power tools on this one yet.

I've got a few more questions, but I'm gonna start a new thread.

Thanks again!

NR
 
Is it a can? I thought it was one of Paully's "stylized" mallards...hehe (its a running joke around the institute)
 
Bob,

I don't know how to take the opening statement or the wording used in your reply as it seems to be directed towards what I said in my reply to Nick's post. If I'm reading too much into this, I apologize.

First, Nick posted that he is finished with the head aside from a few details, posted a picture and asked for opinions. I replied with a few things I noticed that would require a few minutes of work to do and would help make his first decoy look a bit better. I do not dispute a single word of what you posted.

As far as what we teach at the "Institute"

So far, the only formal step by step class we have offered is the canvas goose class taught by Chuck J. This class simply taught the mechanics of building a canvas goose. when we meet for our weekly carving sessions, we do share our ideas on carving. For my part, I take the time to show guys HOW I CARVE A DECOY. I do not, nor will I ever hold someone's hand from start to finish on every detail of a decoy. I mainly teach how to remove wood and make shapes. I do very little of telling someone where each shape has to go. I teach like this for a few reasons.

First, I think it is important that a person is given the freedom to fail and struggle to some extent in the carving process. I think a person learns more by some trial and error, has a better understanding once they are successful, and has more of a feeling of accomplishment when it comes together. If someone is having a hard time on an area, and asks for help, I do the best I can to help them out.

The second benefit of this is that everyone eventually develops their own style. One guy in our group is a machinist. He comments often that he enjoys making decoys because at work, he has to look at a print and make a part from it without any deviation from the print. When making decoys there are no rules or boundaries and he is able to express the way he sees a duck with a knife and paintbrush. His decoys are not anatomically correct, but they are aesthetically pleasing and the ducks seem to like them. To sum it up, he's learned to make a decoy he likes, enjoys doing it, and has a rig to hunt over that he is proud to have done himself, and in the process has learned to identify old decoys by region and learned a lot about the men who made them. This is why the "Institute" exists.

Regards,

Paul
 
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