My first decoy head from Rutgers' kit (pics)

Let's clarify this "Cheeks" / "Jaw" business. There shouldn't be any "cheeks".
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

First off, I have always appreciated your advise, both on the public forum and privatly, so in no way mean any offense.

Second, I enjoy ribbing Paully as much as the next guy, but I read earlier, and re-read now your post, and frankly am a little puzzled...doesn't this decoy have "cheeks":

122408-050-1.jpg


Just trying to get a better understanding, as I'm likely not the only one not totally getting it.

Thanks
Chuck
 

In reply to:
"I read earlier, and re-read now your post, and frankly am a little puzzled...doesn't this decoy have "cheeks""

&

"don't know how to take the opening statement or the wording used in your reply as it seems to be directed towards what I said in my reply to Nick's post."


Whooooee! Looks like I might have pissed in the Cheerios....

Chuck,

My comment at the start of the post was most certainly intended to poke a little fun at Paulie, because it seemed like everyone who replied was missing the basic mistake I was seeing. I assumed he would take it as such... and probably appreciate the comments as well as the pictures included to clarify. Guess its true that when you assume it moght make an ass (out of) u & me. But what the heck, I'll live... even without feeling the love.

Actually Chuck, you have selected a perfect picture to display what I was talking about. Perhaps the problem in all the replies lies in the use of the word "cheeks" and "jaw" to describe what I see going on with the canvasback head posted for feedback. Look at the following picture:

View attachment FrondWidgeon 003 (600 x 489).jpg

Now, do you see what will happen to the line of the "cheek" musculature carved into that bird as the decoy is rotated and viewed head-on? There will be no line from the "cheek/jaw" to interrupt the flow of the neck-line when the decoy is viewed head -on. The "cheek" muscle I carved into that particular bird will disappear because it is well forward of the jowl area which flows down uninterrupted at the neck. Hope this helps clarify what I'm talking about when I said: "Any rounding of the "jaw" area is forward of the neck and it pretty much disappears when the head is viewed head-on."


Now go back and look at the pictures originally posted by Nick. See what I mean? A common mistake of beginning carvers is to "see" this line at the cheek/jaw/chin (pick the term) as extending all the way back around the neck - into and even past the jowl. When this interpretation is viewed head on, it shows up as a harsh channnel in the flow of the neck line (Looks like a pumpkin on a stick). That shouldn't happen. Additionally, the species in the picture posted for comments is a canvasback - probably the one duck that would be the prime example of how the neck flows down uninterrupted at the jowl. If you don't care about having that line, it's ok by me . Treat this as you would advice you ask from your in-laws: Listen to it, and then do whatever you like.

If it's still not clear, we can ask Hitch to post a pic of a head on shot of that widgeon decoy ( I wish I had one in my files, but this is the best angle shot I can come up with).



Paulie,

I applaud your love of carving, and I think what you're doing to pass on the tradition & enjoyment to others is great. Just pullin' your chain. Heck, I know Harker gave you more grief than that, just 15 seconds into a phone call.

-----Oh, by the way, I don't want to see these pictures reproduced on any other forums; they're for personal, one time, use only... I don't want you guys taking advantage of me to make billions of dollars on reproductions. Please respect that and be gentle with me...
(That was a Joke, a JOKE , A JOKE... insert hundreds of 'smilies' ... funnin', satire, joke!)

View attachment FrondWidgeon 003 (600 x 489).jpg
 
Good thing the ducks don't care about detail like bill nails, eyes, nostrils & even exact colors.

Reminds me what my brother says about calling turkeys. He claims to sound way better than most turkeys & says the jakes really don't know what they are doing.
 
Bob,

I read too much into your reply. Please accept my apology if my reply seemed disrespectful. Like I said, what you posted was spot on. I know you have years invested into gaining the skill and knowledge you have for ducks, and am grateful for you sharing it. I admire your work, especially since you make them and use them to hunt.

Best Regards,

Paul
 
Whooooee! Looks like I might have pissed in the Cheerios....
Click to expand...

No, not really, but you have definately cleared up your point a bit. Now, although we are looking at two different species here, I personally prefer to carve a less distinct "cheek" cut, but as far as the placement of the "cheek cut" in your widgeon and Nick's can, I think your widgeon looks too far forward. Now before someone jumps down my throat posting a ton of photo reference of live birds, I said "looks", as in to me and MY aestetic taste.

122408-050.jpg


This is the photo (Hitch's) that I cropped the example from, and I prefer the Euroasian in this photo, because although I appreciate the artistic expression in both, my aestetic taste frankly never cared for the "cheek" placement on the american (since I first saw it, not just through the discussion here...beautiful bird, far beyond my abilities, but that cheek seemed off, to me, AESTETICALLY anyway)

Again Bob, I have nothing but respect for your artistic expressions, and appreciation for your forthright sharing of information. And regardless of confusion, hurt feelings, misunderstood jokes...I appreciate this frank discussion...like I always say, if you want to make an omlette, you need to break a few eggs!

Chuck
 
the decoy, even though he's a DUCK, enjoys starting the season in SEPTEMBER chasing Doves, three species of Forest Grouse and Band Tailed Pigeons....he's ready for Quail and Chukars and Huns come the first week of October and then Pheasants a coupl eof weeks later.....

He's multi-faceted donchaknow.....enjoying not only fooling the 250 THOUSAND Wigeon that live on his favorite saltwater bay but also getting to visit Florida for Christmas to see his East Coast buddies.....

And he's asked if he might please attend Turkey season this year as well......

Hows that?

Steve
 
Chuck, the one thing about the Euro and the American in that picture though is the head placement and the pose. The American has more of a "snuggler" or rester pose which anatomically would pronounce this "cheek" more, while the Euro has it's neck extended more which would minimize this.

Bob, great points, thanks for posting them and the pictures. I believe it really helps. Nice birds as always.

Nick, keep at it. First one is always the hardest.
 
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