My Holy Grail Found! Original Sailing BBSB

Dave Diefenderfer

Dave Diefenderfer

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Picked up an old sailing BBSB yesterday up in NJ. This was build as a sailboat. Never a hunting boat. Cedar planked, feather edged, never been glassed. The old timer I bought it from was getting fuzzy on details. He thought he bought it from the builder but could not find the check with his name on it! He has refinished it several times in the past. Sanding it down, re-caulking and then new spar varnish.
It is in need of refinish restoration again. I am looking for some input on how I should tackle this. My goal is to set it up for hunting. Will add oar locks and decoy racks. Will move the grassing rails to the bow, and add a dodger. Also have a motormount design in my mind that would be removable for the sailing rudder.

When you look at the pictures you will see some repairs that had been done, and there are a couple cracked ribs. Some of the edges of boards are soft and split. The sail rigging is in decent shape, needs some sanding and refinish, and the base of the mast is starting to delaminate. Looks like some glue and clamps will be all it needs. The sail has 2 panels that are worn through, and a couple battens are missing.

I think I should glass this, as I don't have the ability to swell it and keep it wet, and I don't want to lay in a wet boat.

So what would you suggest? I will wait a couple months for the weather to get a little nicer before I dig into it,,, gather input and define the plan... Your input is most appreciated.

You can see the pictures here:
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s240/ddiefend/Sneakbox%20before/
 
Dave,

That is a sweet find! I'm not the one to advise on how to "preserve" it, but am glad to see you plan on using it, while preserving it. Thanks for sharing.

Chuck
 
I'd hit up the crew on woodenboat.com with these questions

I guess it depends on what you want to do with it and how fussy you are. But, after looking at the condition and challenges, you may want to speak to some professional and semi-professional restorers.

That's a gem.
 
I'm looking forward to watching this project come together. Neat boat! Great find!
 
http://www.brushcreekyachts.com/

Check this site out.Marvin builds fine wooded boats.I'm sure he could advise you on glassing the hull.A trailered wooden boat would always leak some,unless it is back in the water a few times a week.It varies.As for the motor mount,you mar want to incoperate it into the decoy rack,which would then be removed for summer sailing.Stay away from a heavy sail rig.Use a simple Sprit rig,that will stow under the deck.You would want at least 9' spars,so check the distance inside bow to back of cockpit to see how long a spar you can get in there.
 
Did the same restoration about 4 years ago on a sail BBSB I got in Conn.. Replaced eight ribs, replanked deck and glassed the hull. Great project took about three months. Hardest part was getting the Atlantic Ceder and milling it down. Also added more support to the transome for the extra weight and tork of an outboard. You got a gem there nice heavier weight and they pole, row and motor like a dream. Could e-mail some pictures tried to upload them here but size to big. Will try to learn to resize. Have fun.
 
Dave, I'm over in lakeridge.please keep us posted on your progress. Would love to come out and watch it sale.

Bill V
 
Dave,

Congratulations on the acquisition of your sneakbox.

The Tuckerton Seaport Museum in Tuckerton, NJ has many older boxes and is a terrific resource.

Here are some pictures of oarlocks I took at the show last fall.

I am going to put oar locks on mine this spring. This season I just used a canoe paddle.

Tuckerton005.jpg


Tuckerton006.jpg


Tuckerton010.jpg


Tuckerton012.jpg


There is a pin that hold the oar lock up.
Tuckerton018.jpg


Good luck with your new boat.

John
 
Hi Dave....Congrats once again! I looked through all the pictures on the photobook site. In looking at the planks that need replacing I was thinking that if you can't find any cedar down there, the sawmill that I get my cedar from here in Vt tells me that they do cut clear cedar for boat builders. Something to keep in mind...

John Bourbon
 
I think you just found an old "scow" type sailboat. http://www.dngoodchild.com/5011.htm

They are more common in the midwest/heartland than the northeast/coastal regions & are used mostly in fresh water lakes. The hulls are optimized to deal with relatively heavy winds coming across dry land & preventing any "chop" waves from building. The bigger ones (E class) are crazy fast & require highly skilled handling.

I've fussed around trying to restore a couple old wooden sail boats. I think what you have found could serve you well as a duck boat. I'd attack the rot with automotive filler (bondo) & fiberglas over the outer surfaces.
 
just a question, but would you consider NOT converting it and keeping it in the current design as a sail powered one adn use the lines to create a new one? Not many of those old sailers left in that kind of condition.

On the repair end of it, I will bet getting any glass to stick to that boat will be hard and ultimately prove to be fatal with time. Wood will move and the glass will not and you will get micro fractures and the wood will rot before you know it. It has happened many many times on old wooden boats that people were "saving". Usually guys who are successful with it end up cold molding a layer of veneer over the whole boat on bias (45 degrees) and then glass. This helps cut down on SOME of the seasonal movement of the boat.

Very cool find indeed, congrats and good luck either way.
 


Man has a great point... that's you want to run to a site like Woodenboat as well to get multiple opinions. There are a lot of pros here like Bill Perry, etc... but per square foot, the Woodenboat site has many more folks who have done what you are doing with antique wooden boats. This isn't a boat, it's a responsibility ; )

Good luck with it.
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Eric, I absolutely will keep it a sailing box, but want to hunt it as one. I searched for a while to find a sailing rig... (I know of a couple more if anyone is looking). The pictures for Bill Perry's hunt this Winter was the ultimate tease. I'll be there too... maybe not next fall, but I hope so. Have to see what the new year brings for project money!

Are you suggesting I should keep it varnished and not hunt it? Humm... don't think I can afford that with my current finance committee chairwoman....
 
That's a great find. Find out all the infor on restoring it before you start and you will be pleased with the result. The "Wooden Boat Forum" is not much into to duck hunting, but are into sailing and restoring wooden boots. So with out mentioning duck hunting find out all you can. Then you can do what you want. The transom will definitely have to be stiffen. I found that out many years ago with a older wooden boat. Deep six a twelve horse motor. Just try to tell your dad what happened to his out board motor. He must have been a pretty good man because I am still alive.
 
OK, currently too cold to do much work on the reburbish, so I can spend hours on line! First order of business will be to determine a working space. I have a garage I can heat, but it is attached to the house, and the wife's convertible is parked in there. It is where all my tools are stored, and where I normally do my projects. However, the boat work will be drawn out and very dusty. First thought was a tent like others here have done, but that is cold and not secure. The ideal is to build an other garage! "Gee dear, I got a great deal on this boat, but now I need to build a new garage for it!" I am thinking maybe an oversized shed/work shop might be doable. Something in the 12x16 or a little larger? Thnking I might find something prefabed?

Anyway while I work that out... I was looking for some vintage styled hardware for the boat. Looking for a set of chocks for the bow, and a nice bow handle. I would like a handle that would be mounted strong enough to also function as the bow eye.
11151.jpg
Maybe something like this but not in Chrome!!!

I also need some transom handles for both the BBSB and my Scull float.

Perry/Dave C. et al., what do you use on the sailing rig? What did period hardawre look like on the sailing BBSB back in the day?

TIA, Dave
 
Dave,
You can get Atlantic White Cedar (Juniper) cut to fit from Gates Custom Milling in Gatesville NC. You can 411 them or Google them. I grew up on wooden boats (Dad had several Mahogany hulled Chris Craft boats) and remember having to swell them every time after they came out to be scraped and painted. Further, you will have added scrape and ice protection. JMO but I'd darn sure glass the boat and the folks on this site will be glad to take you through the how to do it.

I'm envious,
Harry
 
For a real vintage look cleats can be made out of oak.

A classic sailing rig would be a sprit on an unstayed mast. http://www.instructables.com/id/CanoeSail/

I have a 16' dory with a spritsail rig.

You can build a cheap strong sail out of Tyvek, doublesided carpet tape & a grommet kit from the hardware store. http://gaboats.com/boats/blivit13.html
 
Gary, I got the sailing rig with the boat. It is a wood mast, boom, and sprit....

The attached picture was taken sometime before 2004 when it was last wet. Can't see the details of the sail, but the pictures in the first link does give some more details. The sail has 2 panels that are worn through, so I will have to see if the rest of the sail is still worth repair vs replace. View attachment Chatsworth Box.jpg

View attachment Chatsworth Box.jpg
 
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Your mast appears "unstayed". I haven't checked in a few years, but I would expect that the cost to replace your sail would nearly equal cost to have one made - but not more than $500. Any sail maker could use your old sail as a pattern. And YOU could also use it as a pattern to put together a fast TYVEK sail. Playing around with TYVEK would also allow you to try an oversized sail for light winds. Putting together a longer sprit out of a closet pole isn't hard to do. My dory is put away for the winter & is under an iced up cover. I'd be glad to email you some pictures of my sailing rig in the spring so you can see how the sprit is rigged.


I still suspect your boat was a member of a sailing "class" but using it to hunt & sail isn't inconsistant with what the old timers did. As long as you don't go nuts trying to duplicate a near furniture finish, it could be set up with oars & a 2-3 hp engine off a bracket.
 
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