My take...

tod osier

tod osier

Well-known member
Gold Sponsor
Things have cooled off and it seems that everyone that is going to has spoken their mind.

First and foremost the basis and core of this forum is a group of guys who make things with their own hands and those that value handmade duck hunting stuff. Be it building or messing with boats, decoys, calls or even taking wonderful photos these days. This is the core constituency for the forum - these are the people that have driven and shaped the forum and sustained it over the years. I have worked hard over the years to contribute and do the work required to be a member in good standing. These people are the ones that do the yeoman’s work day-in and day-out (and year-in and year-out) providing content here by sharing their life. Contributing to the forum goes beyond, saying “great picture” or “nice boat”; it includes promoting and defending the core values of the forum.

There is an untruth repeated time and time again that this forum was ever and should currently be free of conflict. Some people would like it to serve as a refuge from the refuge and a forum for the tender. This is simply not true; this group was built and our opinions and friendships forged in often spirited debate.

My concern is not alienating the spinner-lover, which is not a core constituent here. Rather my concern is the forum becoming too stale due to the misconception that vigorous debate can’t take place here or that the core become disgusted (as I have) with the proliferation of spinners.

Some have made the cry that I’m a self appointed cop – yep I’ll cop to that. It is the duty of every forum member to contribute and do their part to maintain forum mission. In this last debate a number of defenders of the sanctity of the site screeched and howled that I was out of line, but it is clear that this is not the case given Eric’s statement. For those that gnash their teeth at the conflict here – look at the discussions that have taken shape in the past several days – more ideas have flowed here than in the past several months combined.

As for how I conducted myself with Derek, it has been called a flame, attack and an opinion, Derek certainly perceived it as an attack and I was quick to apologize for hurting his feelings. I challenge anyone who cried foul to read the thread and demonstrate to me that it was an attack. I stated how I feel and I stated what his actions say to me about him. This forum is not a judgment-free zone not for anyone, including obviously me. As for my standard of conduct, I defer to the moderators’ direction and guidance. It is clear that my conduct was considered acceptable by both Eric and Steve.

Tod

 
Todd,
I am going to call you out on this. I think you are dead wrong.

Your words,

"nasty is nasty - even if you have a trained guinea pig running in there to make the wings go.".

Thats your reply to a guy who put a picture up of his day hunting.

I am just about sure that Derek was not here in the beginning for some of the more worked up "debates" if that is what you want to call it.

But I missed the part where the two of you had an issue as friends in Eric's and Steve's house where you feel its your place to demean the guy and his choice for hunting legally under his states book, and having the courtesy to take a bunch of time to post the pictures.

I sure as heck wouldn't bother to do it again if I showed a shot of my day for the guys who cant hunt that week and got the dose you handed out. And I don't want to hear it, about letting a guy have it, because he was looking for a pat on the back for shooting birds. This is not catch and release fly fishing. Killing a duck and eating it at your table is the basis for building all the stuff this site is about. Your judgment of the hunter and his means is what this is about.

You are now hiding behind your impression of what the site is to you and I don't buy it.

Unless you and Derek have personal history I don't know about, you were way over the line and are stirring the pot again to find a little support from the guys who root for the big fights.


I said before, the spinner has nothing to do with this. How a guy writes, is who he is.

I was hopping you were having a bad week and that was all it was, but if you don't see how taking a guy out because you don't like his hunting choice, is not debate, than thats your personal shortcoming as I see it.

Sure the things you say about the site may have some degree of merit, but the fact is you have been ripping stuff up lately and it shows.

My understanding of the beginning of this site is that when a guy has something to offer of value to a guy who could use it, it is offered as good will to the common goal of all of us being duck hunters.

This is not censorship. There is a way to go about doing stuff, and even Sutton knows the difference.

If a guy asks about a Ruger and you hate it and let us know,,,, no problem. He asked. If a guy shows you his stuff out hunting and you hate it,,,, well you now know how it goes....

Life is short and we are few. If you feel this is a load than hammer away, I asked.

Reff, Aunt Easy if necessary.
 
I agree with Bob on this and I have seen the same thing from you before. You don't just discuss where you disagree with a person, you often attack both them and their ideas. I have no problem with discussing where you disagree with a person's ideas, hunting methods, etc. but you often get personal.

I came on one time and asked a question. Your response to me was that I shouldn't be so lazy looking to be spoon fed information when I could go to any library and look it up myself. I thought the sharing of information was also one of the reason this forum exists. In fact , using your line of response at that time we could just do away with the forum all together. Have a dog medical question: go to a vet. Have a boat building question :go to the library, buy the plans, or apprentice yourself to a boat builder. Need to know anything about any topic; Go to the library , use google, or hire a professional in the field you are looking at.

What came across in many of the responses (IMHO) was that some folks here think that because they carve their own dekes, make their ow boats, etc. that they are some how superior as a hunter/person than someone who doesn't. There was a lot of talk about being "traditional". As I asked in my post ,"what exactly is traditional", who's definition of traditional should we use ?

If you make your own dekes then only those that use hand tools and old methods are really traditional. If someone uses modern tools ( which is what a spinner is in regard to decoys) then they are obviously far superior to those that use fordhams, dremels and other modern tools /paints/air brushes/glues etc. to make "traditional" decoys.

Do you train your own dog ? If you use an E-collar than you are not being traditional. The e-collar is just a tool that has improved the art of dog training in many ways. The old dog trainers used rocks, bird shot,clubs , and good old fashioned shoe leather to train their dogs. It was harder on them, the dogs and wasn't as efficient but it was traditional.

You replied on my "what exactly is traditional" thread : "[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]add a rig of decoys you carved in a boat that you built with a dog you trained. Doesn't get any better. "

Maybe for you, but not for everyone. Believe it or not, not everyone is inot the "things" of waterfowling. I have had days where I hunted with friends from their commercial boats , with a dog they had trained by a trainer or maybe wasn't even that well trained, over plastic decoys and have had a blast, both when we got birds and when we didn't.

One great hunt I remember is hauling boats across ice for over 2 miles through the iced over flooded timber to spend over and hour breaking open a hole and then hunting for 7 hours and never firing a shot. I can still remember the crisp cold air. How the timber looked from the moon light reflecting off the snow. The laughter at one guy who kept breaking through. The dogs chasing each other and rolling around in the snow.The enjoyment came from sharing an experience with friends who's company I enjoyed, not from the THINGS around us. And let me tell you , even though they don't carve , build their own boats or even have dogs, they are some of the hardest core most ethical knowlegable hunters I have ever met.

You are correct that this site came about because of people that share some of the same desires, hobbies, etc. But does that mean that there is no room for others who don't follow the EXACT same things ? People often complain that many of today's hunters seems to be more concerned about the kill and don't seem as concerned with the "intangibles" of waterfowling. Maybe if you explained and shared why or what you get out of hunting over your own dekes, out of your own boat, over your own trained dog , instead of attacking their methods of hunting and coming across as a pompous JA you might actually convert more people into a way of sharing a sport that we all love in a manner you prefer. Then again, you could also just try and enjoy someone else's post of a hunt they enjoyed and took the time to share without turning it into an attack on them or their methods

Dave B
[/font]
 
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Todd,
I am going to call you out on this. I think you are dead wrong.

Your words,

"nasty is nasty - even if you have a trained guinea pig running in there to make the wings go.".

Thats your reply to a guy who put a picture up of his day hunting.

I am just about sure that Derek was not here in the beginning for some of the more worked up "debates" if that is what you want to call it.

But I missed the part where the two of you had an issue as friends in Eric's and Steve's house where you feel its your place to demean the guy and his choice for hunting legally under his states book, and having the courtesy to take a bunch of time to post the pictures.

I sure as heck wouldn't bother to do it again if I showed a shot of my day for the guys who cant hunt that week and got the dose you handed out. And I don't want to hear it, about letting a guy have it, because he was looking for a pat on the back for shooting birds. This is not catch and release fly fishing. Killing a duck and eating it at your table is the basis for building all the stuff this site is about. Your judgment of the hunter and his means is what this is about.

You are now hiding behind your impression of what the site is to you and I don't buy it.

Unless you and Derek have personal history I don't know about, you were way over the line and are stirring the pot again to find a little support from the guys who root for the big fights.


I said before, the spinner has nothing to do with this. How a guy writes, is who he is.

I was hopping you were having a bad week and that was all it was, but if you don't see how taking a guy out because you don't like his hunting choice, is not debate, than thats your personal shortcoming as I see it.

Sure the things you say about the site may have some degree of merit, but the fact is you have been ripping stuff up lately and it shows.

My understanding of the beginning of this site is that when a guy has something to offer of value to a guy who could use it, it is offered as good will to the common goal of all of us being duck hunters.

This is not censorship. There is a way to go about doing stuff, and even Sutton knows the difference.

If a guy asks about a Ruger and you hate it and let us know,,,, no problem. He asked. If a guy shows you his stuff out hunting and you hate it,,,, well you now know how it goes....

Life is short and we are few. If you feel this is a load than hammer away, I asked.

Reff, Aunt Easy if necessary.
Click to expand...


Lots of stuff there Bob, but I think I follow you - you still think I'm an asshole. Got it. Just between you and me a lot of people do too - my mother just tonight thought the same thing, but maybe a little less strongly (but that is another issue). Anyway, I'm not convinced (but Baumy is, but he thought I was an asshole long before last week). where do we go from here, a hug?

T
 
I agree with Bob on this and I have seen the same thing from you before. You don't just discuss where you disagree with a person, you often attack both them and their ideas. I have no problem with discussing where you disagree with a person's ideas, hunting methods, etc. but you often get personal.

I came on one time and asked a question. Your response to me was that I shouldn't be so lazy looking to be spoon fed information when I could go to any library and look it up myself. I thought the sharing of information was also one of the reason this forum exists. In fact , using your line of response at that time we could just do away with the forum all together. Have a dog medical question: go to a vet. Have a boat building question :go to the library, buy the plans, or apprentice yourself to a boat builder. Need to know anything about any topic; Go to the library , use google, or hire a professional in the field you are looking at.

What came across in many of the responses (IMHO) was that some folks here think that because they carve their own dekes, make their ow boats, etc. that they are some how superior as a hunter/person than someone who doesn't. There was a lot of talk about being "traditional". As I asked in my post ,"what exactly is traditional", who's definition of traditional should we use ?

If you make your own dekes then only those that use hand tools and old methods are really traditional. If someone uses modern tools ( which is what a spinner is in regard to decoys) then they are obviously far superior to those that use fordhams, dremels and other modern tools /paints/air brushes/glues etc. to make "traditional" decoys.

Do you train your own dog ? If you use an E-collar than you are not being traditional. The e-collar is just a tool that has improved the art of dog training in many ways. The old dog trainers used rocks, bird shot,clubs , and good old fashioned shoe leather to train their dogs. It was harder on them, the dogs and wasn't as efficient but it was traditional.

You replied on my "what exactly is traditional" thread : "[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]add a rig of decoys you carved in a boat that you built with a dog you trained. Doesn't get any better. "

Maybe for you, but not for everyone. Believe it or not, not everyone is inot the "things" of waterfowling. I have had days where I hunted with friends from their commercial boats , with a dog they had trained by a trainer or maybe wasn't even that well trained, over plastic decoys and have had a blast, both when we got birds and when we didn't.

One great hunt I remember is hauling boats across ice for over 2 miles through the iced over flooded timber to spend over and hour breaking open a hole and then hunting for 7 hours and never firing a shot. I can still remember the crisp cold air. How the timber looked from the moon light reflecting off the snow. The laughter at one guy who kept breaking through. The dogs chasing each other and rolling around in the snow.The enjoyment came from sharing an experience with friends who's company I enjoyed, not from the THINGS around us. And let me tell you , even though they don't carve , build their own boats or even have dogs, they are some of the hardest core most ethical knowlegable hunters I have ever met.

You are correct that this site came about because of people that share some of the same desires, hobbies, etc. But does that mean that there is no room for others who don't follow the EXACT same things ? People often complain that many of today's hunters seems to be more concerned about the kill and don't seem as concerned with the "intangibles" of waterfowling. Maybe if you explained and shared why or what you get out of hunting over your own dekes, out of your own boat, over your own trained dog , instead of attacking their methods of hunting and coming across as a pompous JA you might actually convert more people into a way of sharing a sport that we all love in a manner you prefer. Then again, you could also just try and enjoy someone else's post of a hunt they enjoyed and took the time to share without turning it into an attack on them or their methods

Dave B
[/font]
Click to expand...


I get it Dave, you are into the experiance and don't care what anyone else does or has - you are on a higher plane, you have transcended. Unless, that is, they think they are superior to you, then you take offense. Got it, yeah right. Keep up the good fight, although I have no idea what it is for, other than obviously not me.
 
You are trying to be 5th grade cute and put words in my mouth that I did not say in either of my posts.

"I think I follow you - you still think I'm an asshole. Got it, ....... so does my mother."

Many here may think just that, and you seem to be encouraging it as a badge of pride, but

I think you are better than what you have written in the last couple of days. And I hope you take a bit of time to consider how what you write may sound to some random internet guy you send it on to.


If you already really do, then I have this totally wrong, and you are right.

But from my short intro into what you are about I think you are a better person than what I have read in the last week leeds many to believe.

Impress the heck out of us all.
 
Things have cooled off and it seems that everyone that is going to has spoken their mind.

First and foremost the basis and core of this forum is a group of guys who make things with their own hands and those that value handmade duck hunting stuff. Be it building or messing with boats, decoys, calls or even taking wonderful photos these days. This is the core constituency for the forum - these are the people that have driven and shaped the forum and sustained it over the years. I have worked hard over the years to contribute and do the work required to be a member in good standing. These people are the ones that do the yeoman’s work day-in and day-out (and year-in and year-out) providing content here by sharing their life. Contributing to the forum goes beyond, saying “great picture” or “nice boat”; it includes promoting and defending the core values of the forum.

There is an untruth repeated time and time again that this forum was ever and should currently be free of conflict. Some people would like it to serve as a refuge from the refuge and a forum for the tender. This is simply not true; this group was built and our opinions and friendships forged in often spirited debate.

My concern is not alienating the spinner-lover, which is not a core constituent here. Rather my concern is the forum becoming too stale due to the misconception that vigorous debate can’t take place here or that the core become disgusted (as I have) with the proliferation of spinners.

Some have made the cry that I’m a self appointed cop – yep I’ll cop to that. It is the duty of every forum member to contribute and do their part to maintain forum mission. In this last debate a number of defenders of the sanctity of the site screeched and howled that I was out of line, but it is clear that this is not the case given Eric’s statement. For those that gnash their teeth at the conflict here – look at the discussions that have taken shape in the past several days – more ideas have flowed here than in the past several months combined.

As for how I conducted myself with Derek, it has been called a flame, attack and an opinion, Derek certainly perceived it as an attack and I was quick to apologize for hurting his feelings. I challenge anyone who cried foul to read the thread and demonstrate to me that it was an attack. I stated how I feel and I stated what his actions say to me about him. This forum is not a judgment-free zone not for anyone, including obviously me. As for my standard of conduct, I defer to the moderators’ direction and guidance. It is clear that my conduct was considered acceptable by both Eric and Steve.

Tod
Click to expand...

Hmmm....didn't know there were requirements for being a member to this site. You should probably put a Mission Statement on the main page to scare away people who might not share your opinions. And, for your information, I came here because I was looking for information on building a boat and would love to make my own decoys and I'm sure I'll find all the help I could ever want on here and that is why I'm here. Oh, and I trained my dog by myself and she's doing great thank you. She's not a purebred lab, she came from a pet rescue at 4 months and she's the best dog I've ever had. Oh, and my feelings weren't hurt by some Jack like you. But thanks for thinking so, I'm sure you felt pretty good about yourself, you seem to get some sort of rise by being an ass to anyone who you disagree with. Yeah, we all have an opinion, and sometimes its best kept to yourself or at least go about it differently and just maybe people won't call you an ass. But then again, I think(and that's just my opinion)that you thoroughly enjoy being an ass.
 
Not for nuthin' Tod... I don't post anymore because of you. You made duckboats.net more stressful than work. I used to post mainly about boat building and I feel I've given back more than I had taken over the years... so I stopped posting with a clear conscious.

Everything you wrote when you started this thread off sounds well packaged... and I think you mean it... but there are two Tods... the one who started off this post and the one who helped me with some sound technical advice back in 2003.

Then there is the other Tod who every once in a while feels compelled to go on a drive-by personal shooting... and then when called on it, acts surprised by the reaction, effectively calls the (now) adversary a puxxy and then the same small crowd applauds you for being "funny" and "independent minded"... and Eric and Steve enable you by not censuring you... so you think it's all good. It's not, it stinks.

We get it, you're really smart. Healthy debates can be had without acting like a punk. Be classy in your approach and you will attain a status within the duck hunting community similar to that of the Treasures here... we all know who they are - smart and classy... the Ira's, the Hank's, the Steve's, the Eric's, the Bill W's, the Scott F's... for ex...

Steve's recent poop joke aside, Steve makes it up with uncanny bird knowledge and skill... in other words, Steve can put the coal to some punkish behavior once in a while because of his AAA knowledge and skill...

Smart and classy... that should be your goal. And you'll get there.
 
Not for nuthin' Tod... I don't post anymore because of you. You made duckboats.net more stressful than work. I used to post mainly about boat building and I feel I've given back more than I had taken over the years... so I stopped posting with a clear conscious.

Everything you wrote when you started this thread off sounds well packaged... and I think you mean it... but there are two Tods... the one who started off this post and the one who helped me with some sound technical advice back in 2003.

Then there is the other Tod who every once in a while feels compelled to go on a drive-by personal shooting... and then when called on it, acts surprised by the reaction, effectively calls the (now) adversary a puxxy and then the same small crowd applauds you for being "funny" and "independent minded"... and Eric and Steve enable you by not censuring you... so you think it's all good. It's not, it stinks.

We get it, you're really smart. Healthy debates can be had without acting like a punk. Be classy in your approach and you will attain a status within the duck hunting community similar to that of the Treasures here... we all know who they are - smart and classy... the Ira's, the Hank's, the Steve's, the Eric's, the Bill W's, the Scott F's... for ex...

Steve's recent poop joke aside, Steve makes it up with uncanny bird knowledge and skill... in other words, Steve can put the coal to some punkish behavior once in a while because of his AAA knowledge and skill...

Smart and classy... that should be your goal. And you'll get there.
Click to expand...


I'm glad to have to have you back Andrew, I was wondering when you would resurface. You have been preparing that response for quite some time now, I'm sure. For sure you have been waiting and watching, I noticed that you have been logged in quite a bit lately.

Andrew there have never been two Tods, only me. You were able to look the other way for a time while I was spoon-feeding you on how to build your boat. You grow enough sack to stick around? How do you feel about spinners?

T
 
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Things have cooled off and it seems that everyone that is going to has spoken their mind.

First and foremost the basis and core of this forum is a group of guys who make things with their own hands and those that value handmade duck hunting stuff. Be it building or messing with boats, decoys, calls or even taking wonderful photos these days. This is the core constituency for the forum - these are the people that have driven and shaped the forum and sustained it over the years. I have worked hard over the years to contribute and do the work required to be a member in good standing. These people are the ones that do the yeoman’s work day-in and day-out (and year-in and year-out) providing content here by sharing their life. Contributing to the forum goes beyond, saying “great picture” or “nice boat”; it includes promoting and defending the core values of the forum.

There is an untruth repeated time and time again that this forum was ever and should currently be free of conflict. Some people would like it to serve as a refuge from the refuge and a forum for the tender. This is simply not true; this group was built and our opinions and friendships forged in often spirited debate.

My concern is not alienating the spinner-lover, which is not a core constituent here. Rather my concern is the forum becoming too stale due to the misconception that vigorous debate can’t take place here or that the core become disgusted (as I have) with the proliferation of spinners.

Some have made the cry that I’m a self appointed cop – yep I’ll cop to that. It is the duty of every forum member to contribute and do their part to maintain forum mission. In this last debate a number of defenders of the sanctity of the site screeched and howled that I was out of line, but it is clear that this is not the case given Eric’s statement. For those that gnash their teeth at the conflict here – look at the discussions that have taken shape in the past several days – more ideas have flowed here than in the past several months combined.

As for how I conducted myself with Derek, it has been called a flame, attack and an opinion, Derek certainly perceived it as an attack and I was quick to apologize for hurting his feelings. I challenge anyone who cried foul to read the thread and demonstrate to me that it was an attack. I stated how I feel and I stated what his actions say to me about him. This forum is not a judgment-free zone not for anyone, including obviously me. As for my standard of conduct, I defer to the moderators’ direction and guidance. It is clear that my conduct was considered acceptable by both Eric and Steve.

Tod
Click to expand...

Hmmm....didn't know there were requirements for being a member to this site. You should probably put a Mission Statement on the main page to scare away people who might not share your opinions. And, for your information, I came here because I was looking for information on building a boat and would love to make my own decoys and I'm sure I'll find all the help I could ever want on here and that is why I'm here. Oh, and I trained my dog by myself and she's doing great thank you. She's not a purebred lab, she came from a pet rescue at 4 months and she's the best dog I've ever had. Oh, and my feelings weren't hurt by some Jack like you. But thanks for thinking so, I'm sure you felt pretty good about yourself, you seem to get some sort of rise by being an ass to anyone who you disagree with. Yeah, we all have an opinion, and sometimes its best kept to yourself or at least go about it differently and just maybe people won't call you an ass. But then again, I think(and that's just my opinion)that you thoroughly enjoy being an ass.
Click to expand...


Good Derek, I'm glad you are fine, so I won't feel bad.
 
"My concern is not alienating the spinner-lover, which is not a core constituent here."

This statement is an assumption as I don't know that the numbers are out there that can support that claim. It may be, but it also may not be. Many have avoided responding to this and the other similar threads that would give an indication of whether they are against, for or are indifferent to the use of spinners. Just an observation.
 
Bob

If I stated that Nellie was one of the ugliest kids to ever make it on tv while Mary was one of the cutest do you think I could start a fight?
 
Tod,

You say that there are not two Tods, only one. Apparently those that know you personally disagree. When I had a run in with you I received a few PMs from folks that said they knew you personally and considered you a friend. They stated that you are very different in person but for some reason you seem to like to act like a JA online. I PMed back to them that I was pretty sure that it was no act, but not to worry, I've seen much worse on the job.

I must admit I was surprised by one thing in the PMs though ............. you have friends ?

Dave B
 
I bought a Duckboats.net decal put it on a piece of plexiglass took it to the first Midwest Duckboats.net get together and promptly got chastised by Sutton for not obtaining permission to expliot the use of the artwork. Not a month ago he told me when I get to Florida he'll come visit when I find the Snook. We get along just find. For crying out loud everyboby take a powder and go hunting!

And my vote for tv cutey goes to Mary Ann from Gilligans Island...so there! Flame me if you want.

Take care,

Ed L.
 
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