North Dakota Waterfowl Hunting

I seems to me that in a state with such few resources as Joe explains, maybe the state should look at ways to make NR hunting a valuable financial resource.
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Come for the first couple weeks of pheasant season. I don't think much more money can be made off of the hunters without legalizing brothels. For the past few years nonresident pheasant hunters have outnumbered residents. That is the main reason waterfowl have been "saved" for residents. We do still sell as many nonresident waterfowl licenses and many other states. It's just a little harder to get them but the quality is much better. Tim
 
Bill,

I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion that "no good comes of it". I've hunted many places in the US and Canada that rely on hunters and fishermen for their local economies and have seen good. Unrestricted and unlawful exploitation of wildlife by some doesn't condemn the process for all.
 
Mark move here and your problem is solved, or sell your land and buy some in the state you live.

Ownership should not guarantee rights. What about foreign investors in US land and companies...should they have the same rights as those of us living here? I would hope you see the foolishness in your argument based solely on the fact you pay property taxes. If you didn't own the land it would still generate the same income, BUT if you actually lived here it would generate MORE income for the local economy. Your land may generate more state income than some of the locals....so by your logic should you have MORE rights than someone who rents their home and pays no property taxes, but lives here year round? Should you also be able to vote in local elections? We have no income tax, but your property tax doesn't entirely support our state.

I would say you would have an argument if the USFWS managed all hunting and fishing in this country, but they don't that management is essentially in the hands of the state. Would you rather we just had the US Govt and no state governments? Where do you draw the line?

Move here and your problem is solved...in fact I'm curious if you are so passionate about gaining the same rights as a resident, and you already own land why aren't you living here? I'll go out on a limb and say many of the reasons you live in the metro and don't relocate here are many of the same reasons why we have such good hunting.

What is ironic is that the same argument you are using as to why you should have resident privileges is the logic that residents use to argue against it....all goes back to what side of the fence you are on. The beauty is that nothing is stopping you from moving here to our side of the fence.

Joe
 
I'll go out on a limb and say many of the reasons you live in the metro and don't relocate here are many of the same reasons why we have such good hunting.

What is ironic is that the same argument you are using as to why you should have resident privileges is the logic that residents use to argue against it....all goes back to what side of the fence you are on. The beauty is that nothing is stopping you from moving here to our side of the fence.
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Oh how true those words are. The tax argument is laughable and makes me wonder if you actually thought that through? The beauty of our republic is that if you do not like it where you live, let your feet do the talking and you can move to another state. It is very selfish to say that because you are an absentee land owner you should be granted the same rights and privileges as a resident. I have friends and family that live in the Cities and it is almost to a person that they get into the "should statements" every time the conversation turns to hunting in the Dakotas. What I call the "should statements" is when they start saying things like...... You should call me when the birds show up. Framers should be nicer to NR’s, don’t they realize how much money we spend in their little town. You should have the ditches mowed so we don’t have to worry about road hunters. Your state should treat absentee land owners the same as residents. and on and on.....

Over and over good things get ruined in the western states when people leave a place (city) because of the over development, limited outdoor resources, high taxes or other factor. Then they move out state or out west to some pretty lake, over hang, mountain or valley and start telling the locals how it is to be done and that they are tax payers too and should have their voice heard. Sell you land and pay some fancy guide to take you hunting, problem solved.

Yes Bill it is cold but it keeps those softies out and complaining on internet forums all winter about how My state should be more accommodating to them as absentee landowners and/or traveling sportsmen.
 
I lived in this for 30 years, maybe not quite this bad, but 7 years in the peoples republic of maryland made me a wuss.... :-) still trying to find that land barons daughter.....
 
I'm with Matt.

If you want to live it up in the city, that's your choice.

When I rule the world, people will only be able to hunt and fish within the county of their residence!
 
First off, I'm not passionate about the law or I would be doing something about it. If you read my posts, nowhere did I ask to sign me up for the petition the originator of the post seeks. I also said in one of my posts that I wouldn't be listened to anyway being a NR. I understand the State protecting pheasants - they are born, raised and stay there. ND and SD do not raise every single duck that passes through the State thus they are called Migratory birds. My opinion is that there is a difference.

I always like the statement - "just move here". Let's see, my job is where I live. What I do doesn't exist in ND or SD. I'm 51 years old and don't really feel like starting a whole new career. I will get a pension when I retire and in a few short years this is a remote possibility. My wife has a job here and is in the same boat I am. Our kids were born and raised here, go to school and College here, and have all their friends here. My parents still live here and my friends and my wifes friends are here. So please tell me how easy it is to "just move". How selfish would I be to even suggest that?

I also like the "just sell the land and buy new land in MN" Why would I do that? Think of a few hundred acres of land and what that would cost in taxes upon the sale? Can you think of anything more stupid? My brother in law also rents this land from us to support his farming. He can't afford to purchase the land outright and if I sell it, the chance of him getting the same rental rate are nil if the new owner would even rent it to him.

I think the laws are wrong - it is my opinion. I understand why they are the way they are - I just think it is wrong and selfish. Can you imagine if every State adopted the same laws ND and SD have in place? This would be bad for all of duck hunting. It takes money to fund what the States do to keep quality hunting. Make it harder for people to hunt and they quit. People quit, money is lost. If there is no money coming in from game and fish, there is no money to pay for conservation, CO salaries, etc... If NR are asked for more money to support the residents hunting, they will quit coming. If they quit, where will the money come from? And so on and so on........

If more land owners are considering doing what I am, there goes quality land for all to hunt. We've been lucky and only had one bad experience from people we let hunt our land and therefore still allow anyone who asks to hunt hunt - free. I'm thinking of changing that and making the whole acreage farmable land or not allowing anyone to hunt it anymore. At least I am still allowed to do that on the land I own. Maybe I should start doing what other land owners are doing and charge for the priviledge of hunting my land. There goes more land for the average Joe to hunt. It costs me money to maintain a duck slough area and plant acreage for the pheasants and while I get quite a bit of satisfaction from doing this, I get very little back as far as personally enjoying hunting the land I own and maintain. The State makes it close to impossible for me to do so.

As far as being called an "Absentee landowner" who is doing nothing for the wildlife in SD but abusing it (which is always implied), you are dead wrong. It is because of people with similar minds that hunting in your state remains as good as it is. I'm not the problem, I'm trying hard to be a small part of the solution.

As far as not paying my "fair share"? What do you think I spend for liability insurance (in case someone get shot while hunting my land). taxes, maintenance on the duck slough, planting of feed and cover for pheasants, and lost revenue at about $100/acre I could get from changing this to farm land and renting it? Besides the $35 license (or whatever a resident license is), what does the AVERAGE resident do for maintaining wildlife in the State?

So, what would I do it? I'd make every NR who wants to hunt or fish in my State pay the say amount it costs me to hunt or fish in their State. Also have to follow the same rules as far as the 14 day rules ND and SD adopted. I think this is more than fair. Wonder how the NR ND/SD fisherman would feel about that one?

Always more than one side of an discussion huh?

Mark W
 
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I would just be happy if NR could duck hunt on PLOTS during the opening week of resident Upland game hunting. As I understand it, that was the spirit or intent of the law when writing, but the verbage as passed didn't go that way.

This year in central/sout central ND NOBODY was on the PLOTS ground all week... I think I saw or 2 groups in orange.... so NOONE was pounding any birds that week.......
 
the walls would crumble down if i walked in......

Matt I did find a widowed land owner, she was a little old for me, but very attractive. She only had 1200 acres and it was only good for the first week, not quite enough for a sugar momma..... :-)
 
"Can you imagine if every State adopted the same laws ND and SD have in place? This would be bad for all of duck hunting. It takes money to fund what the States do to keep quality hunting. Make it harder for people to hunt and they quit. People quit, money is lost. If there is no money coming in from game and fish, there is no money to pay for conservation, CO salaries, etc... If NR are asked for more money to support the residents hunting, they will quit coming. If they quit, where will the money come from? And so on and so on........ "

Can you imagine if every state developed every inch of the lakes, drained wetlands, tiled sloughs and farmed EVERY available inch they could. Good thing we didn't adopt those rules (although it's prob. not far off).
Why don't you rewind fifty years ago to the days when you HAD a flyway. Remember the canvasbacks on lake Christina?

By your reasoning if ducks are a federally managed MIGRATORY bird (which they are) the great state of MN should be repaying EVERYONE in the central flyway for squandering EVERYONES resources.

Why not rehabilitate one of the wetlands in Minnesota...maybe it'll pay off?

I've lived in Minnesota (St. Cloud), I understand the sacrifices you have to make when it comes to occupation and pay. If you do decide to retire out here, I'd be willing to bet you change your opinion.
 
Can you imagine if every state developed every inch of the lakes, drained wetlands, tiled sloughs and farmed EVERY available inch they could. Good thing we didn't adopt those rules (although it's prob. not far off).
Why don't you rewind fifty years ago to the days when you HAD a flyway. Remember the canvasbacks on lake Christina?

By your reasoning if ducks are a federally managed MIGRATORY bird (which they are) the great state of MN should be repaying EVERYONE in the central flyway for squandering EVERYONES resources.

Why not rehabilitate one of the wetlands in Minnesota...maybe it'll pay off?

I've lived in Minnesota (St. Cloud), I understand the sacrifices you have to make when it comes to occupation and pay. If you do decide to retire out here, I'd be willing to bet you change your opinion.
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Couldn't agree more that MN has wasted what we used to have. I rarely hunt here and have moved to Wisconsin (to hunt) for a number of reasons. Hunting in MN has become a lesson in futility. The AVERAGE hunter does not understand what this State has done to ruin duck hunting. They get it when it comes to fishing (sort of) but as far as ducks go, they don't understand. The DNR is beholden to the politicians and do whatever they Politicians say. We just voted ourselves a 3/8's of 1% tax increase that was suppose to go toward hunting and fishing. Before we got a chance to vote on it, the whole law changed from 100% outdoor money to 33% Arts, 33% parks and trails, and 33% for hunting and fishing. The spending of the money was suppose to be decided by a group of citizens. That has already changed to include legislators and others who want to spend the money on other social problems. I'll bet that in 2 years the tax increase we voted upo ourselves will be spent by the politicians and not on outdoor activities. As much as I wanted to vote yes, I voted no as it wasn't too much of a strecth to see what was going to happen.

I'd retire to SD in a heartbeat - but I would have to leave my wife ( on certain days this looks more and more attractive - kidding, kidding). She grew up there in a farming family and according to her, everyday was like camping. Not much for electricity, no indooor running water, outhouse etc.... Should see the pictures of the house they grew up in. Picture the old white house with barely any white on it.

I do see both sides of the fence as my wifes side lives in SD. I hear it all - both the good and the bad. Talk to some of the communities that used to have full weekends of activities for opening pheasants and see how that has changed as the rules to hunt there have changed. It is not what it used to be. I'm not saying it is all good, I'm just saying it has changed. The town closest to where we have property has experienced this first hand. They built hotels/motels for the hunting and fishing (and one other event) and those hotels are gone. One remains but two others had to close as the hunters didn't want to spend the money they did to bascially hunt one weekend.

For those who left the city life to move to SD - I wish I had your guts to do so but I don't. I'd have to give up more than I would gain if I gave it all up and moved to SD. Maybe in a few short years. I love SD - especially the small towns.

Mark W
 
As for those early season resident only birds it looks like you guys did the damage before the nr's ever got there! And Mark W. North Dakota protects migratory waterfowl more than they protect the resident pheasants.
 
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I can't believe a bunch of old retirement age (but not retired) guys asking to hunt shorter but more frequent periods could generate so much rhetoric and B.S. The two 7-day periods do nothing but make law breakers out of everyone! How many ducks can you eat in a week? 42 per hunter? I don't think so! Can you give them away? Kind of like giving snowballs to the Eskimos. We tried the Food Bank - no go!

The 3-day non-resident license you can buy in Maryland lets you consume a limit of birds while you are there and bring two-days' limit home nice and legal.

Theoretically, four hunters in North Dakota could have 336 birds in their coolers at the end of their 14-day hunt. Let's say they each ate two birds per day (a lot!) - that leaves 224 birds in the coolers. Have you ever seen those road blocks on Sunday afternoons in ND? Unless you are dumping your birds in a field somewhere like those Sheyenne Lodge boys up in Goodrich (busted), the best you can do is eat all you can, try to give some away, and hope and pray you don't get stopped and searched on the way home! Or is that part of the plan?
 
I can't believe a bunch of old retirement age (but not retired) guys asking to hunt shorter but more frequent periods could generate so much rhetoric and B.S. The two 7-day periods do nothing but make law breakers out of everyone! How many ducks can you eat in a week? 42 per hunter? I don't think so! Can you give them away? Kind of like giving snowballs to the Eskimos. We tried the Food Bank - no go!

The 3-day non-resident license you can buy in Maryland lets you consume a limit of birds while you are there and bring two-days' limit home nice and legal.

Theoretically, four hunters in North Dakota could have 336 birds in their coolers at the end of their 14-day hunt. Let's say they each ate two birds per day (a lot!) - that leaves 224 birds in the coolers. Have you ever seen those road blocks on Sunday afternoons in ND? Unless you are dumping your birds in a field somewhere like those Sheyenne Lodge boys up in Goodrich (busted), the best you can do is eat all you can, try to give some away, and hope and pray you don't get stopped and searched on the way home! Or is that part of the plan?
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Nothing is forcing you to shoot a limit every day. It's a license to hunt not a license for a weeks limit of ducks.
Also if you make jerky or some other sort of cooked ready to eat snack from them they are not part of your possession limit anymore. At least that is what I've always been told. I'd check into that if you need to shoot 42 ducks in a week.

Tim
 
Grind it up and make it into taco meat... I was with 4 other guys in ND this year... and not every day was limits all around.. but we ate our birds... you aren't eating much of anything else...

1 recommendation from me.... shoot teal and buffies at the beginning of the trip...
 
Talk to some of the communities that used to have full weekends of activities for opening pheasants and see how that has changed as the rules to hunt there have changed. It is not what it used to be. I'm not saying it is all good, I'm just saying it has changed. The town closest to where we have property has experienced this first hand. They built hotels/motels for the hunting and fishing (and one other event) and those hotels are gone. One remains but two others had to close as the hunters didn't want to spend the money they did to bascially hunt one weekend.
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Talk to some of the communities that used to have full weekends of activities for opening pheasants and see how that has changed as the rules to hunt there have changed. It is not what it used to be. I'm not saying it is all good, I'm just saying it has changed. The town closest to where we have property has experienced this first hand. They built hotels/motels for the hunting and fishing (and one other event) and those hotels are gone. One remains but two others had to close as the hunters didn't want to spend the money they did to bascially hunt one weekend.
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Mark, I'm curious to know what has changed to make these places shut down? Is it that there use to only be 70,000 nonresidents coming into SD to hunt but now there are over 100,000? Is it that for the past few years the numbers of birds has been high here while other states like Iowa have seen crashes in populations? Is it that we have a great Walk In Area system that is open to everyone (except guides I believe)? If it is that silly three day season you can think again. That is only on public land, before most crops are out and usually in pretty warm weather. It's a joke and I have never hunted it. The amount of birds shot then is a drop in the bucket. I've been hunting here for nearly 30 years and there has been no change to either the resident or nonresident licenses in that time. I think you'd have to go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back to find a full season nonresident license. There were some tough years but one thing we can't control is the weather. The only thing I can think of is that instead of staying in motels they are staying in the lodges that are popping up all over the place. Or maybe the nearby bars didn't bus in good enough strippers or watered the drinks down too much? I think most of the nonresident money now goes in the Mitchell to Winner area. There are some high end places farther north but I've never seen near the numbers of hunters there as I have farther to the SW. Maybe the Aberdeen area has more but I've never hunted near there. As to fishing, during Minnesota's closed part of the walleye season you will see plenty of MN tags at SD lakes. I haven't heard of anything stopping nonresidents from coming here to fish. Limits have come down but they are the same for us locals. btw Anyone interested in hunting or fishing in SD this coming year I'd buy your license early. Looks like big cuts to the GF&P this year so I'm thinking a raise to nonresident fees is on the horizon...they will probably do resident fees also. Tim *Edited to add the paragraphs that were there when I typed it out, dang that was hard for me to read and I knew what it said.*
 
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My area was spotty for birds even before season started, Res in this area only really hunted the opening weekend rest of the week was quiet.

As a NR we would always bring a small grill and eat duck everyday. Now with the house its Duck and eggs for breakfest, duck sandwichs for lunch, and who knows what for duck dinner, doesn't matter if its 3 days or 14. We are selective in the ducks we shoot and don't shoot just to get a limit, no road hunting jump shooting sloughs. If it happens great, but duck hunting to us is much more about the experience than the bag limit When I would stay for 14 days, I found a guy would process the first few days ducks into jerky and snack on those the rest of the time. Jerky does count towards your possesion. It has never even remotely been a thought to smuggle over our possesion limit of ducks. I am glad they do the road block checks and search hunter homes on occasion.
 
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