Opener and motor problems - help

Mark W

Mark W

Well-known member
Yep, never fails. I get the trailer lights working and then the motor has problems again.

Saturday was a very long day. We left our house at 1:30 am and drove for a couple of hours. Launched the boat and got about 1.5 miles from the landing and the motor died. And it was smoking. And it smelled something awful. There was smoke coming out of the pee hole and everywhere else. I was certain we fried the motor. We sat for awhile hoping the motor would cool down and we could restart it. It didn't. Went to get the oars and they didn't fit in the oar locks. New boat has different size oar locks then the old boat where the oars came from. Since I had never had to use the oars in the new boat, I never checked to make sure they fit. We had to paddle back. Got back to the landing and then put the boat on the trailer and drove to a motor shop 30 miles back up the road. Had some breakfast and then went and waited for the shop to open. For the heck of it I tried to start the motor while waiting and it started. Good news. The motor guys checked it out and it ran OK and the motor was peeing. Slight leakage from where the thermostat was and after checked the thermostat he just tightened the screws and the leak ceased.

Off we went for try #2. Got back to the landing around 8:45 and launched the boat. Motor ran but didn't run all that great. Got set up in a less than ideal setting and shot at 3 ducks the whole day and got one nice drake woodie. Got up this morning and it was pouring and 38 degrees outside. Not trusting the motor, we came home.

That's it. Not the best opener but it was what it was.

So, what is wrong with the motor? Obviously it was overheating and I'm guessing the peehole wasn't peeing. A couple of other things that didn't seem right. This is a 15 hp newer Evinrude motor. The inside of the prop (where the exhaust comes out) was coated with an off white, almost creme colored grease. It looked almost like fat dippings. After running the motor for the second time and checking the prop, it was clean. Also, a few inches from where the motor and shaft meet it got real hot, I mean real hot. The spot was a little lower than where the exhaust somes out the back. The housing was very hot.

Anyway. The motor had old gas in it and I replaced the gas and one of the two spark plugs looks a little fouled (top plug) I replacing those as well. Hopefully I'll get a chance to run it this afternoon or sometime tomorrow.

Any guesses? Did I do something to the cylinders and the motor doesn't have the same compression maybe. We didn't have time to leave the motor to have the compression checked.

Hope you all fared better than I did.

Mark W
 
Mark,

[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/font]
[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]And it was smoking. And it smelled something awful. [/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The inside of the prop (where the exhaust comes out) was coated with an off white, almost creme colored grease. It looked almost like fat dippings.[/font]
Click to expand...
[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Yep, bet it smelled something like an oven on the self cleaning cycle, which is basically what your motor went thru. The greasy crud you saw is what had been inside the exhaust housing. It would be a mixture of carbon and unburned oil. Normally it would stay in the exhaust housing much like creosote buildup in a fireplace chimney. When the motor overheated the housing got hot enough to melt this mixture which then ran down to the prop where it mixed with water causing it to change to the milky creme color that you saw.


[/font]
[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]

[/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica] Motor ran but didn't run all that great. [/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Did I do something to the cylinders and the motor doesn't have the same compression maybe.[/font]
Click to expand...


Based on the info given, most likely the motor has seen it's better days. A compression check is defiantly in order. You may have scored the cylinder walls and or pistons. May have even got it hot enough to score the bearings on the crankshaft.

If it were mine, I'd probably do a complete tear down to check it all out just for piece of mind. ( Would be expensive if you have to pay someone to do this.) If a compression check shows good and even compression, then you might have lucked out. I'd still replace the water pump impeller and possibly the thermostat just to be on the safe side. Also check all passageways for good water flow when you have the thermostat out.

Good luck with what you find.
 
Mark
I think Dave Mc is right. I had that happen to a 65h Merc last summer. check the compression and if there's a big difference between cylinders get a new motor or check the price of repairs. It hurts but you can't afford to get hung up again and you'll always wonder about that engine. My two cents.
wis boz
 
Similar thing happened to me last year, almost the same thing actually. The thermostat gasket started to leak. fixed that, then it died on me while setting decoys the next weekend. Had it looked over and the number 2 cylinder had carbon and aluminum deposits along with little to no compression. Havent burried it yet but will be soon. Hopefully yours is fixable within reasonable cost.
 
Mark, If you read this before I talk to you again make sure that white grease is not lower unit lube. The awful heat in the mid section puzzles me yet.
 
Was that the first you had run it since winterizing? Did you just put Sea Foam in the gas? I'm wondering, if the gunk oil is from heat or cleaner? My motors have that stuff when I run sea foam through them..cleans the old caked on crud out. Your ports on the mid section aren't plugged with mud dauber nests are they? Also, I would pop that lower unit and see if the impeller is fried..maybe a chunk went up the tube and is blocking it intermittently.
 
Last edited:
Lee, I know the gas was not Sea Foamed and it was in a garage so I don't think daubers were building there. Neither does Mark, I sugested that. If a chunk went up the tube it woldn't pee now and it does. Big problem now as I understand is low power. I wonder if the exhaust is plugged somehow building up heat and low power. Still another puzzle.
 
Mark, I know you know this already but I have to say it: Bring your motor to a mechanic and get it fixed or buy a new one. There's no sense in ruining your season or aggravating yourself. When the weathers cold,the winds starts blowing 30, snows a flying, the motor won't start and can't get to the dekes to pick them up, lose half of them to the night, it's no fun. After scaring the hell out of the family because you have to spend the night in the marsh and they think the worse, it's no fun. Besides they will gladly say buy a new motor. John
 
Yeah butt.....He checked the T stat so I was thinking maybe the obstruction may have piddled out there. I'd take an air gun and blow through the "carb relief" ports on the midsection and see if air comes out the prop/exaust. Maybe a friggen mouse built a nest up through the prop, plugging it. I thought maybe daubers plugged the "carb relief" ports making the only outlet the prop...which would be ok if running fast enough..but just putting it would sure make the midsection hot and choke off the motor. If it was mine, I'd sure pop the lower unit and change the whole water pump assembly..if not..then just to make sure the exaust passageways are clear. I'd probably pop the head too if it got that hot and look at the pistons and cylinder walls and the interior of the head and make sure it wasn't warped....and a new head gasket. Mark, today does one of your plugs look "brand new"? Steam cleaned? Ya sure there was oil in the gas to begin with? When you first started and took off, was it sneezing? When was the last time it was "de-carbed"?
 
Last edited:
Dave, I notice this when the water temp drops too. I think the midsection condensates inside , loosening that sludge. I really notice it when I run some sea foam in an older motor or the first startup of the year after spraying winterizing stuff in and letting it sit all winter.
Mark,

[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/font]
[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]And it was smoking. And it smelled something awful. [/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The inside of the prop (where the exhaust comes out) was coated with an off white, almost creme colored grease. It looked almost like fat dippings.[/font]
Click to expand...
[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Yep, bet it smelled something like an oven on the self cleaning cycle, which is basically what your motor went thru. The greasy crud you saw is what had been inside the exhaust housing. It would be a mixture of carbon and unburned oil. Normally it would stay in the exhaust housing much like creosote buildup in a fireplace chimney. When the motor overheated the housing got hot enough to melt this mixture which then ran down to the prop where it mixed with water causing it to change to the milky creme color that you saw.


[/font]
[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]

[/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica] Motor ran but didn't run all that great. [/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Did I do something to the cylinders and the motor doesn't have the same compression maybe.[/font]
Click to expand...


Based on the info given, most likely the motor has seen it's better days. A compression check is defiantly in order. You may have scored the cylinder walls and or pistons. May have even got it hot enough to score the bearings on the crankshaft.

If it were mine, I'd probably do a complete tear down to check it all out just for piece of mind. ( Would be expensive if you have to pay someone to do this.) If a compression check shows good and even compression, then you might have lucked out. I'd still replace the water pump impeller and possibly the thermostat just to be on the safe side. Also check all passageways for good water flow when you have the thermostat out.

Good luck with what you find.
Click to expand...
 
Took the boat out again today after replacing the gas and spark plugs. Ran better but it is not like it used to be. Took the spark plugs out and they were clean and the right color. Checked the thermostat and housing again, no problems and no bubbled paint on the housing or anywhere in the engine.

The motor is harder to start, not terribly so but it is harder. It also doesn't run as fast as it used to. If it used to do 20, it is now doing 17-18. It doesn't seem to have the same hole shot power either. It takes a little while for the motor to get up and go. Also takes longer to get to top speed. The throttle is different as well. I used to be able to turn it all the way and that was top speed. Now I turn it 3/4 - 7/8 and the motor is at top rpm. If I turn it farther, the motor bogs out a little - almost like it is rich. Motor idles fine and at low speed behaves just like it used to.

Finally, that creme color crap is back inside the prop. I cleaned it out and than ran the engine back to shore and there was more of it on the prop. Shaft housing was still hot but not hot where you couldn't touch it like the other day.

Oh, no ducks. Saw one as I was getting set up and I would have easily had it in the dekes but no luck. Saw one group of Woodies and one group of Mallards that I almost had come into the dekes. I did the old "I'll give them one more circle then they are mine" routine and you can guess what happened. They flew off.

Time to get the other homebuilt motor and boat out and try this one. Wonder if I can break it as well.

Thanks for the suggestions. If there are anymore, I welcome the advice.

Mark W
 
Let some lower unit oil out and see what it looks like. Running rich could cause gunk too. Did you do a compression test? Were the plugs tan, or shiny clean?
 

[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]
Dave, I notice this when the water temp drops too. I think the midsection condensates inside , loosening that sludge. I really notice it when I run some sea foam in an older motor or the first startup of the year after spraying winterizing stuff in and letting it sit all winter.
Click to expand...
[/font]
Lee, You are correct in that the sludge is not only in the exhaust housing but also on the insides of the mid section.

For those that don't know, When the exhaust leaves the exhaust housing (item number 10 in the diagram), it empties into the midsection. Once in the midsection the exhaust either goes out the breather openings above the waterline or goes out thru the prop. Which one of these routes it takes is determined by prop speed NOT necessarily engine speed.

Most of the exhaust gasses will pass out the breather openings at idle speeds or trolling along or even with the engined revved up when in neutral. Once the prop is engaged (forward gear) the prop wash will pull the exhaust gasses out thru the prop. Running the motor in reverse gear and opening up the throttle will sometimes cause a motor to "load up" because it can't get rid of the exhaust gasses fast enough. (no venturie (sp?) effect in reverse)

Any motor run primarily at slower speeds or in colder weather will have a greater buildup of the afore mentioned sludge within it's midsection. Sea foam, carb cleaner, fogging oil or extreme heat, any one of these is enough to loosen a bunch of this sludge all at once.


Mark, If you decide to keep running this motor and or rebuild it please check , oh heck, just replace the upper water tube grommet and exhaust gasket. See parts diagram below BTW: This is just a typical 25hp setup, may not be exactly like Marks motor.

midsection.jpg

 
No compression check but will do this tomorrow. We also run dirt bikes and from this I know what good spark plugs look like. These are just starting to turn the right tan color. The plugs are not shiney.

So Dave, why replace the items you mention? You thinking something that you could share? How hard to get to these parts? I've never torn apart an outboard but have completely torn down the 220 Kawasaki more than once and replaced pistons and a bunch of other stuff. Does the lower half motor housing come off or is it best to remove the motor? If it is easy, I can check the stuff you mention. If it is hard, I'm leaving it to the experts. Is there such a thing as a Chiltons Evinrude 15 hp manual?

Mark W
 
Well, no steam cleaned sparkplugs is a good sign. It means your gaskets aren't toasted letting water into the cylinders. I think Dave meant to replace those IF you rebuild it...the gasket comes in the rebuild gasket kit anyway. Don't take the powerhead off unless you plan on rebuilding. I would recommend you get a FACTORY manual for your SPECIFIC motor. The aftermarket manuals are POS's and cost as much as the factory manual. Many times , you can get them on ebay for a song...get the model number and find the year..then get the manual.
 
Mark,

The upper water tube grommet is what seals the water pressure going from the pump to the motor. It's right there on the exhaust tube and I'd guess that it may be fried, dried and toasted. There is no way to visibly see if it is leaking or not so just best to replace it. It may be accessible when you drop the lower unit to inspect/replace the water pump impeller. It will be a long way up there inside the midsection. Too far and narrow to reach with your hand but might be able to get to it with an extended pair of needle nose type pliers.

A light coat of grease will greatly ease the insertion of the new one.

As far as the gasket, same thoughts but, it would require pulling the power head to get to. Probably can get by unless you decide to do a tear down.


As to the now lack of power,,, I'd almost certainly bet on low compression. Only a tear down will tell you just how bad the cylinders and/or pistons are. Like Lee says a factory manual is your best bet. Myself, I'd just go to the web site and print out the exploded views like I did above. That will give you all the info you need for disassemble questions but won't provide other specs that the manual will give.

I looked up a 15hp, again it may not be exactly like yours because I don't know what year or model but it will be close.

First you will want to drop the lower unit at the red line shown on the drawing. You will find six or so bolts holding it together. Remove these and it will only drop about half to three quarter inch. shift the shifter handle to reverse which will allow it to drop a bit further. If reverse doesn't do it try forward but I think it's reverse. Once it has separated as far as it will go with out forcing it !!, you can then remove the bolt on the piece circled in red. This is the connector link for the shift linkage.

Now you can fully separate the lower unit from the rest of the motor. The water pump will be bolted to the lower unit and you can now service it as needed. Now is also when you can look up into the midsection housing and locate and replace that upper water tube grommet.

gearcase.jpg
exhaust.jpg


The other thing you can try is, buy Tom Scholberg a six pack and ask him to bring his tools along when he comes over to drink it.
biggrin.gif

 
Last edited:
Dave, First off it needs to be more than six and it needs to be my favorite brand. That would be cold op's (other peoples) ;<0). One caution in your instructions and that is the bolt in the shift connector NEEDS TO COME ALL THE WAY OUT. I know you said that but I have seen way too many people try to take the lower unit off by just loosening the connector bolt.We're still looking.
 
Also, Mark said "newer" Evinrude. Those types haven't been around since about the 70's...I realize that may be "newer" to an old fart like you though Dave.
 
Ahem,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Lee, That last drawing came right off the Evirude site listed as a 1995 MODEL YEAR!! (SO THERE! )


Your right tho, most of the motors I've tore apart have been built before half the guys here were born. Course you would know that being an old fart yourself. hehe ;>);>)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top