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Huntindave McCann

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As many of you know, I enjoy the sport of winter time ice fishing. On this evenings news there was yet another report of a local drowning involving an ice fisherman. This is the fourth drowning incident this ice fishing season in Iowa. This caused me to wonder, just what if any, statistics were available. The following is an excerpt from one source I stumbled upon.
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Notice the second sentence. Can anyone explain to me how a "drowning" can be "non-fatal"? The dictionary definition is in error? Sort of like the folks who claim to have been "electrocuted" twice?
 
You got me curious so I looked it up and found: "Drowning is the process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion/immersion in liquid". So you can be drowning but be saved before you are actually drowned/dead.

Likewise, I've been electrocuted many times but it's never been fatal. I think that I electrocute my dog every time I push the button on her shock collar but it's at a non fatal level.
 
You got me curious so I looked it up and found: "Drowning is the process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion/immersion in liquid". So you can be drowning but be saved before you are actually drowned/dead.

Likewise, I've been electrocuted many times but it's never been fatal. I think that I electrocute my dog every time I push the button on her shock collar but it's at a non fatal level.
The Cambridge dictionary differs:
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Likewise, I sincerely hope you have not been electrocuted (killed) many times. If so, I'd suggest a different line of work.

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Well, you should never look to an English university for a definition of an English word!!! They make up the words, we define them.:LOL:

It's funny, though - I've never thought of death being the only outcome of either electrocution nor drowning. It's pretty common here (beach town) to hear that someone was drowning, but was saved. And anyone who has ever been shocked says they've been electrocuted.
 
From my simple understanding of English, based on what has been set forth above, it would seem that someone who has drowned would be dead. Someone drowning would be in the act of becoming drowned but could be rescued before?
 
And anyone who has ever been shocked says they've been electrocuted.
"anyone"? I guess now we will need to define "anyone". Clear communication can only occur when all involved parties are using the same word definition. Definitions are exactly what dictionaries provide. Improper or misuse of words and terminology, is not conducive to good communication. Sit in on a few EMS or OSHA training videos or read the training manuals and you will quickly understand the difference between "shocked" and "electrocuted".
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"anyone"? I guess now we will need to define "anyone". Clear communication can only occur when all involved parties are using the same word definition. Definitions are exactly what dictionaries provide. Improper or misuse of words and terminology, is not conducive to good communication. Sit in on a few EMS or OSHA training videos or read the training manuals and you will quickly understand the difference between "shocked" and "electrocuted".
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Never sat in on an EMS training session, but did my very best to stay awake during OSHA training sessions. How does Iowa define "amyone"? This could get interesting. We may be shocked to find out!
 
"anyone"? I guess now we will need to define "anyone". Clear communication can only occur when all involved parties are using the same word definition. Definitions are exactly what dictionaries provide. Improper or misuse of words and terminology, is not conducive to good communication. Sit in on a few EMS or OSHA training videos or read the training manuals and you will quickly understand the difference between "shocked" and "electrocuted".
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I was completing the previous context... read it as "anyone 'round here". No-one said we Southerners are literary geniuses. Just saying I know exactly what someone means when they say they've been electrocuted or were drowning - and that I'd be more surprised if they were dead (when telling me). :cool:
 
Its been awhile since I did any kind of training on drowning, but you can drown and not die. What happens is the body goes unconscious, has the inability to get out of the water and that is the act of drowning. Drowning does not always mean death and when you see in the movies when someone pulls another person out of the water, and they only cough up a mouth full of water and come back to life, that can be accurate. I witnessed that a few times, once with my little brother at a pool when he dove in and hit his head and went unconscious and I dove in and brought him up myself. My friend pulled him out of the water, I actually smacked him across his face (we were kids) and he coughed a couple times and waaa laaa he was back to life. Just like you see in the movies, but scared the fook out of both of us.

What happens is the trachea just closes off completely, just like with eating. When you eat food, the body recognizes it doesnt want this substance in the lungs, so the trachea closes and only allows food to go down the esophagus, otherwise we choke on food and cough and in extreme cases need heimlich maneuver. When this gets lazy (generally in old age) we call this dysphagia and in extreme cases of dysphagia, one can aspirate and die. Same concept for water, body recognizes it is in trouble and cannot get air due to being under water and the body will shut down and go unconscious. When this happens, the trachea closes automatically as well. Dont ask which nerve controls this, but its on the autonomic function and its somewhere in the brain. The person is not dead yet, and it is not fatal until the body relaxes and the trachea opens back up and water goes rushing into the lungs. Its been found that the body will hold the trachea air tight and unconscious for quite some time (cannot even guess at this anymore) but people have been saved under water and had anoxic brain injuries due to lack of O2 before the trachea actually opened and allowed fatal drowning. Just kind of tells you how long the body can hang on under water without actually dying.

You can see this a lot if you watch the documentary "The Deepest Breath" on netflix. Its about the deep diving sport and when they dont quite make it to the top, they are ghostly gray and dead looking. The spotter will just push a breath into their mouths, and all they are doing is tricking the brain to reopen the trachea because it recognizes it can take a breath of fresh air again. They hold the person up for awhile and they eventually wake back up and start breathing again. But technically, when they go unconscious, they drown lol.
 
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But technically, when they go unconscious, they drown lol.
Technically ,if they are unconscious (alive) they have not drown, they are just unconscious.
The term is NOT drowning, the term is "near drowning".

drown; die through submersion in and inhalation of water. You described exactly what the dictionary defines.
The person is not dead yet, and it is not fatal until the body relaxes and the trachea opens back up and water goes rushing into the lungs
 
Technically ,if they are unconscious (alive) they have not drown, they are just unconscious.
The term is NOT drowning, the term is "near drowning".

drown; die through submersion in and inhalation of water. You described exactly what the dictionary defines.
i get what you are saying, but they dont say anoxic brain injury from near drowning, they anoxic brain injury from drowning. This is an exact copy and paste from a medical journal (NIH), notice they say 72 patients admitted for drowning and 21% had confusion due to drowning. Not 100% had deaths from drowning.

In a survey of 72 patients admitted to the hospital for drowning, 21 % had severe anoxic encephalopathy [118]. Neurologic monitoring following resuscitation from drowning is important for prognosis, titration of therapies, and stratification of patients eligible for interventional trials


I am not disagreeing with you at all and the technicality of drowning = death, and near drowning = Almost death. Its just not that black and white, but nothing in the medical world is black and white. Just important to note the inconsistencies in order to fully understand what is actually happening and what is taught around this subject. In all fairness, I havent stepped foot in a classroom in about 10 years, so it could be taught differently today. All I am doing is explaining what I was taught in my EMS courses around drowning and what exactly happens in the body and why they may not consider "drowning" always meaning death.
 
The Cambridge dictionary differs:
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Likewise, I sincerely hope you have not been electrocuted (killed) many times. If so, I'd suggest a different line of work.

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I agree that drown equals death. But drowning and drown are different. If you are drowning then you are in the process of being drowned but the drowning can be stopped and or reversed before death occurs.

I stand corrected on the electrocuted. I've been shocked, not electrocuted.
 
I agree that drown equals death. But drowning and drown are different. If you are drowning then you are in the process of being drowned but the drowning can be stopped and or reversed before death occurs.

I stand corrected on the electrocuted. I've been shocked, not electrocuted.
So, you can be drowning, but if you live you never drowned?

Sorry, being a bit of a smartass. I actually agree with Dave on the technicality (definitely on electrocution) but was pointing out that the word (like electrocution) has been so often used "incorrectly" that it is generally understood when used loosely. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I electrocuted myself."

In fact, we use the word drown quite frequently for other things too - drown sorrows, drowning wet, drowning in work. None of those imply death. So, while one of the definitions of drown includes death, that is not the only definition. I don't think the CDC used the word incorrectly - I think the best analogy to "drown" in that quote is "suffocate" (due to immersion). As with drowning, suffocating can be defined as fatal, but it can also be defined as being deprived of oxygen/stopping respiration.
 
well im shocked you all dont recognize electrocuted for what it is. When i grabbed that 120 v hot wire, My chest thumping swore it was electrocution and not shocking. Still shocking today though i survived.... or is it electrocuting. Cant really say for sure, as my drowned thoughts are suffocated and almost dead.
 
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