Pondering my next build.
- Thread starter Nate Hoyt
- Start date
Nate Hoyt
Member
I am feeling the itch to build another boat. I grew up poling pirogues and still have the pirogue from my avatar. It is a 14 footer and it is great for me and my dog. I can very comfortably balance in it while poling and I have stood up to cast and shoot a few times to prove that I could, but you cannot focus on fishing or shooting when you do.
I would like a two person/1 dog poling boat that is more comfortable to stand in while actively hunting, fishing, throwing a cast net, dip netting crabs, etc. It must allow me to pole a shooter who is also standing. It would be cool for it to be a design with an association with the Delmarva region since I live up here now. I love the lines of the double ended rail skiffs, but I also see poling skiffs with transoms. What are the strengths of each design? How much rocker, what width and how long would you suggest? What would you look for in a perfect nonmotorized poling boat? What are some plans you would suggest I should look up? I would use epoxy/ply stitch and glue construction, but I am not scared of extrapolating from plans using other construction methods. I am tempted to just build it by eye without plans for the challenge, but it would be a better product if I start with proven dimensions.
Nate
I would like a two person/1 dog poling boat that is more comfortable to stand in while actively hunting, fishing, throwing a cast net, dip netting crabs, etc. It must allow me to pole a shooter who is also standing. It would be cool for it to be a design with an association with the Delmarva region since I live up here now. I love the lines of the double ended rail skiffs, but I also see poling skiffs with transoms. What are the strengths of each design? How much rocker, what width and how long would you suggest? What would you look for in a perfect nonmotorized poling boat? What are some plans you would suggest I should look up? I would use epoxy/ply stitch and glue construction, but I am not scared of extrapolating from plans using other construction methods. I am tempted to just build it by eye without plans for the challenge, but it would be a better product if I start with proven dimensions.
Nate
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I don't know of too many, and have never polled such a boat myself, but Sam Devlin does has some designs that might be of help in your search. Have you seen this one?
Poleboat 13 | Devlin Designing Boat Builders (devlinboat.com)
Eric
Poleboat 13 | Devlin Designing Boat Builders (devlinboat.com)
Eric
roy brewington
Well-known member
Following your post as I've thought many times of building similar. Sounds like a Railbird skiff is what your after. I have in the past seen a set of rough plans on line
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Richard Lathrop
Active member
We had a member in the MidAtlantic Traditional Small Craft group that had a railbird skiff fitted with a sliding rowing seat. I think it was built by Independence Seaport Museum.
It was just two side planks and cross planked bottom.
Found a photo online of the skiff.
http://traditionalsmallcraft.com/Railbird.html
Rick
It was just two side planks and cross planked bottom.
Found a photo online of the skiff.
http://traditionalsmallcraft.com/Railbird.html
Rick
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Nate Hoyt
Member
Roy,
Thank you. I keep looking at that one also. There is no question that it would spin in a dime, but that dramatic rocker coupled with the low freeboard makes me nervous. Low windage is great on a poling skiff, but when it has that much rocker, I am afraid it will dip a rail easily when loaded up and the bow will still get blown around with me on the stern. Additionally, I have also noticed that the outwales of half the builds of that design have a tendency to follow unfair curves. To be fair, I have seen one build that looked very good also.
I still am comparing and contrasting double-enders and those with transoms. A hull with a transom would have more displacement in the stern, which should help keep the bow down to some degree with a lower bow weight. I am not as svelte as I once was, so how the stern of the boat carries 250# of me is a significant consideration.
Nate
Thank you. I keep looking at that one also. There is no question that it would spin in a dime, but that dramatic rocker coupled with the low freeboard makes me nervous. Low windage is great on a poling skiff, but when it has that much rocker, I am afraid it will dip a rail easily when loaded up and the bow will still get blown around with me on the stern. Additionally, I have also noticed that the outwales of half the builds of that design have a tendency to follow unfair curves. To be fair, I have seen one build that looked very good also.
I still am comparing and contrasting double-enders and those with transoms. A hull with a transom would have more displacement in the stern, which should help keep the bow down to some degree with a lower bow weight. I am not as svelte as I once was, so how the stern of the boat carries 250# of me is a significant consideration.
Nate
Nate Hoyt
Member
Rick,
I keep coming back to this design. I love the Cattail railbird build by CBMM. I do wonder how it would behave if it weighed half as much. Using stitch and glue, I would cut the weight dramatically. I think these old plank hulls achieved better than expected stability and tracking complements of sheer mass.
It would be fun to figure out how to accomplish that arc bottom with ply. I might have to strip build the bottom.
Nate
I keep coming back to this design. I love the Cattail railbird build by CBMM. I do wonder how it would behave if it weighed half as much. Using stitch and glue, I would cut the weight dramatically. I think these old plank hulls achieved better than expected stability and tracking complements of sheer mass.
It would be fun to figure out how to accomplish that arc bottom with ply. I might have to strip build the bottom.
Nate
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Richard Lathrop
Active member
I am sure a stitch and glue build has been done. I would think that building the bottom of thicker plywood to add weight down low. White oak keelson and runners would add weight as well. Probably build with a couple stations and bend the plywood to get the rocker.
Rick
Rick
I'm not a boat builder and can't help on your design. But what I can tell you is that a railbird skiff will be little different than a pirogue as far as freeboard and stability. I have hunted rails with the Camp's in S Jersey for 30 years and done many pushes, and if you are looking for stability a rail bird skiff is not what you want. It is too narrow and you will go over. That skiff is for very shallow water and for pushing through wild rice, not for gunning as a layout or similar. I think you would want a design that has a much wider bottom and would allow you to roll a bit when you swing your gun.
Steve Sanford
Well-known member
Nate~
I cannot find plans - but I can see why you like the Railbird....
How much arc in the bottom?
With a bottom of 1/4-inch plywood, you can get some arc by oil-canning the bottom as you build. I did that with this bateau/pirogue I built years ago - maybe an inch at the widest part.
I forced the bottom downward and then 'glassed 3 frames in place.
It was plenty stable for shooting whilst seated.
All the best,
SJS
I cannot find plans - but I can see why you like the Railbird....
How much arc in the bottom?
With a bottom of 1/4-inch plywood, you can get some arc by oil-canning the bottom as you build. I did that with this bateau/pirogue I built years ago - maybe an inch at the widest part.
I forced the bottom downward and then 'glassed 3 frames in place.
It was plenty stable for shooting whilst seated.
All the best,
SJS
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Nate Hoyt
Member
Greg,
Fair enough. My expectations of stability is "more stable than a pirogue" which is a fairly low bar. All skiffs that pole well require a robust inner ear; a ~4:1 length to width ratio is the rule of thumb, so they are generally considered narrow. I hunt and fish marsh, so whatever I make has to float on hope and I'd like use it to push up birds for a shooter in the bow.
Our pirogues, whether 14 or 16 ft. long, have 36" beams. I've found mention of the TSCA railbird having a 54" beam, which is a pretty big step up from a pirogue. However, the most commonly mentioned ones are narrower. The Maurice River and Spira Railbirds all have 38-39" beams; all are minimally different from a pirogue, so I will probably not go any of those routes.
I may just lay out a ~16 x 48 double-ender with 3" of rocker and see what it looks like and then add a transom if I think it would be a benefit.
Nate
Fair enough. My expectations of stability is "more stable than a pirogue" which is a fairly low bar. All skiffs that pole well require a robust inner ear; a ~4:1 length to width ratio is the rule of thumb, so they are generally considered narrow. I hunt and fish marsh, so whatever I make has to float on hope and I'd like use it to push up birds for a shooter in the bow.
Our pirogues, whether 14 or 16 ft. long, have 36" beams. I've found mention of the TSCA railbird having a 54" beam, which is a pretty big step up from a pirogue. However, the most commonly mentioned ones are narrower. The Maurice River and Spira Railbirds all have 38-39" beams; all are minimally different from a pirogue, so I will probably not go any of those routes.
I may just lay out a ~16 x 48 double-ender with 3" of rocker and see what it looks like and then add a transom if I think it would be a benefit.
Nate
Nate Hoyt
Member
Steve,
I think you have to contact the CBMM library to order those plans based on what I've read online.
I am toying around with the idea of using 9 mm. for the bottom and ripping longitudinal kerfs to get 1.5-2" of arc across the bottom of the middle station. I could just cold mold/Aussie strip it, but that gets heavy.
Nice pirogue.
Nate
I think you have to contact the CBMM library to order those plans based on what I've read online.
I am toying around with the idea of using 9 mm. for the bottom and ripping longitudinal kerfs to get 1.5-2" of arc across the bottom of the middle station. I could just cold mold/Aussie strip it, but that gets heavy.
Nice pirogue.
Nate
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jode hillman
Well-known member
I think you should look along the lines of the Delaware ducker. It was designed to do exactly all of the things that you mentioned. Many were built with lapstrake construction. But you shouldn't have any trouble taking the lines off it and using plywood or plank construction.
It is a little bit wider and has more freeboard than a traditional rail skiff. Although they are used extensively for pushing and paddling in the rice. Both of mine are 16 feet long, 36-38 along the bottom 44-46 the gunnels, freeboard is 12". Decking arrangements vary by builder.
I have two Delaware river double Enders. Two people can walk past each other in the boat to trade places and it is not tippy.
I spent a fair amount of time on the Eastern shore and If you're in Elkton you're less than an hour from my place near Woodstown.
So I'm not far if you ever want to check them out.
It is a little bit wider and has more freeboard than a traditional rail skiff. Although they are used extensively for pushing and paddling in the rice. Both of mine are 16 feet long, 36-38 along the bottom 44-46 the gunnels, freeboard is 12". Decking arrangements vary by builder.
I have two Delaware river double Enders. Two people can walk past each other in the boat to trade places and it is not tippy.
I spent a fair amount of time on the Eastern shore and If you're in Elkton you're less than an hour from my place near Woodstown.
So I'm not far if you ever want to check them out.
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Nate Hoyt
Member
Jode,
Wow, look what Cape Falcon Kayak made (https://www.capefalconkayaks.com/delaware-ducker.html)! I have been looking for an excuse to make a skin-on-frame boat and this one is gorgeous.
They built it as row/sail boat which is apparently consistent with the original usage. I would skip the sail rig to save build time and paint it some version of mud green instead of leaving it bright, but it would still be pretty.
Nate
Wow, look what Cape Falcon Kayak made (https://www.capefalconkayaks.com/delaware-ducker.html)! I have been looking for an excuse to make a skin-on-frame boat and this one is gorgeous.
They built it as row/sail boat which is apparently consistent with the original usage. I would skip the sail rig to save build time and paint it some version of mud green instead of leaving it bright, but it would still be pretty.
Nate
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Steve Sanford
Well-known member
Nate~
I believe Thomas Eakins was an early member of duckboats.net.....
And, I'm thinking you need your partner to stand on the stern deck and do all the poling.
All the best,
SJS
I believe Thomas Eakins was an early member of duckboats.net.....
And, I'm thinking you need your partner to stand on the stern deck and do all the poling.
All the best,
SJS
Steve
You had me looking for him in the member directory until I figured out it was a joke. DOH!
Eric
You had me looking for him in the member directory until I figured out it was a joke. DOH!
Eric