Question for you boat builders on replacing gussets

Tom Barb

Tom Barb

Active member
STILL in the process of refurbishing my old Sneakbox. I'm to the point where I'm replacing my gussets connecting the top ribs and bottom ribs. I got a piece of 1/2 inch okoume. The hull ribs are 2 piece so I'll be sistering 1/2 cedar for connecting these because these will most likely see the most water.

My question is do I need to coat the gussets in epoxy before I install them? It is okoume so is supposed to be glued together with waterproof glue. The boat will be stored inside so it shouldn't see fresh water. Even hunting, I wouldn't think they would see much water. Maybe a few splashes.

The original gussets were just regular 3/8 plywood and weren't in terrible shape. Seems they lasted for over 60 years.
 
Fully encapsulate every piece in epoxy.

The plywood gets it's rating for passing a boiling test. We are concerned about water getting in between the layers and expanding when freezing and rot.

My wooden boats (4) are all fully encapsulated in epoxy, and I still make sure they are dried in a heated building before storing them for the winter.

Good luck
 
STILL in the process of refurbishing my old Sneakbox. I'm to the point where I'm replacing my gussets connecting the top ribs and bottom ribs. I got a piece of 1/2 inch okoume. The hull ribs are 2 piece so I'll be sistering 1/2 cedar for connecting these because these will most likely see the most water.

My question is do I need to coat the gussets in epoxy before I install them? It is okoume so is supposed to be glued together with waterproof glue. The boat will be stored inside so it shouldn't see fresh water. Even hunting, I wouldn't think they would see much water. Maybe a few splashes.

The original gussets were just regular 3/8 plywood and weren't in terrible shape. Seems they lasted for over 60 years.
Click to expand...


I don't agree that with a boat traditionally constructed that epoxy encapsulation should be a goal and more importantly I don't believe that it is attainaible. If you partially encapsulate (in an attempt to fully) water will get in and not get out (i.e., dry in the off season) and you will get rot.

I would not use okoume in the situation you describle. It is not a very rot resistant wood and will not work well in that application. I'd go with fir if you need to go with plywood.

Okoume works well in stitch and glue because you can fully encapsulate the material, with traditional construction I believe it is folly to try to get full ensapsulation.
 
Tod, that's what I was wondering. I don't think I will try and encapsulate them. But I'm hoping I can use the okoume I just paid a pretty penny for it lol. So if okoume gets wet, it will just delaminate fairly quickly?

Here's a few pics of what I'm talking about.

Here's the cedar braces I'm using for the hull ribs. No encapsulation here.





Here are the gussets I'm replacing. And a pic of the okoume.




Would using 1/2 pressure treated, not encapsulated, be a better option? It would be a pain but I think I could replace a gusset after the boat is complete if I absolutely have to. With right angle attachments and some extensions with my cordless drill.
 
Okoume is light (and has a lot of strength per weight) and it works well for stitch adn glue (which is why is is often talked about here), but it isn't really a wood well suited to getting wet like traditional boat building woods. It si not in the class of fir (like what you are replacing), cedar, oak, etc... as far as that use. I dont' know of any traditional builders that use it. Rather than delam, you are talking outright rot as an issue, it has very low rot resistance. If you can find anyone who builds traditional boats and has a history of using it, I'd feel much better about it in that application. I'd want to use marine fir rather than okoume for this application, but there may be better options - I just don't know. I don't think I'd use PT.
 
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Encapsulate them suckers as best you can and put it back on. that's all you can do since it looks like you've come this far.

At least, that's what I would do...
 
Tom,
I'm with Todd on this. You can never fully encapsulate wood. It moves with temp & humidity and will pick up water with mere osmotic pressure. I've rebuilt a lot of boats and there are two ways I treated wood...though I never recommend using pressure treated wood (IMHO). I paint the structures with marine paint, thinning the first couple coats for penetration and keeping on top of it during regular maintenance. Another solution is treatment with Cuprinol (green). This penetrates and helps prevent dry rot with regular maintenance.
I had to replace 20' of stem & keel (and 11 ribs) on a fella's 35' Egg Harbor due to rotting. He tried to keep it dry but had no wood treatment maintenance. It had been in the Ocean prior to coming to Lake St. Clair and that is a typical problem with Egg Harbor...rots once it gets to fresh water.
Anyhow....the point is...treatment and maintenance.
Lou
 
Lou, I have a gallon of your FME I got a while back. I'm going to get a piece of fir plywood 1/2 inch. And the whole inside of the boat will be painted with it. I should be good with this approach I think. I'll save the okoume in the hopes of building a devlin boat one day. One less piece to buy I guess lol
 
Lou,

Question: Why does wood rot faster in fresh water than in salt water? I would think it would be just the opposite due to all the critters in salt water. Being so far from salt water I don't have any experience with wood and salt.
 
Pete,
I don't have a definitive answer for that. I was talking with a bunch of the boat guys when I was doing this boat and it heard it numerous times. Don't know about other boats but it was something with the Egg Harbor Boats. The had the tendency to dry rot more once they hit fresh water. Could be that the salt prevented some of the rot and then when the salt washed away...it might have become more susceptible to fungal growth and thus...rot.
Lou
===========

Lou,

Question: Why does wood rot faster in fresh water than in salt water? I would think it would be just the opposite due to all the critters in salt water. Being so far from salt water I don't have any experience with wood and salt.


Pete
View attachment EggH32-01.jpg
Process begun on opening up the bow. Customer on the left.
View attachment EggH32-02.jpg
The front area of the rot.
View attachment EggH32-03.jpg
Part of stem and keel laid out in my shop.
View attachment EggH32-04.jpg
Keel during fitting process
View attachment EggH32-05.jpg
Stem/keel & ribs installed.
 
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Nice job Lou. Bet the owner is breathing a big sigh of relief after seeing your work.

I'll have to do some investigating on the whole rot thing - never thought about it much before but now I want to know.
 
Lou that is some project you did there. Very impressive. I have heard stories about old timers here in jersey that would sink their sneakboxes during the summer to preserve them and protect them from the rain. Then would pump them out for gunning season. From what I understand, fresh water is the devil for wooden boats.
 
In an earlier life, when I worked in a boatyard on the Cheasapeake, it was very common for the waterman to keep the wood on the inside of the hulls of their deadrise bare so that they could paint on green cuprinol once or twice a season. Heck I did it to my Vansant built bateau....

If it were me, I would do what Lou said, paint the gussets with cuprinol, only I would do it once a year.

John Bourbon
 
I, too, am in the Cuprinol camp - or at least a wood preservative of some kind.

Cuprinol Green was my standard for wood boat interiors for years. I would add a bit of duckboat paint to tone down the color of the raw interior wood. And, I would soak external pieces like thatch rails, motorboards, etc in it. I notice that Jamestown Distributors still lists it but no longer carries it. I suspect it was high in VOCs and may no longer available in the US. I used a Behr fencepost product most recently for this purpose.

Also, so-called "dry rot" is a fungus that cannot survive immersion in salt. Salt kills many life forms with osmotic pressure - which is why so few plants are adapted to life in a salt marsh. The dry rot fungus needs moisture, a confined space, and some warmth - and also a food source like cellulose. The copper in Cuprinol is its primary biocide, I believe. I have not yet explored all the contemporary products to find the best replacement for Cuprinol Green.

In any event, it sure is fun watching this build.

SJS
 
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