Jay K said:
Rightfully he should. There are just so many incredible and counterintuitive events that had to transpire if the reports of Crabtree's story are accurate.
Reelfoot lake Incident
- Thread starter Kevin B
- Start date
Rightfully he should. There are just so many incredible and counterintuitive events that had to transpire if the reports of Crabtree's story are accurate.
Now, here is some updated reporting on Mr. Crabtree's recollection of events:
"Just a few seconds after he arrived and asked if he could use the blind, and they said yes, and that's when the survivor noticed him loading his gun, turned around and heard the gunshot, and he thought it was an accident."
The survivor went to help the injured friend, Zachary Grooms, and that's when Thomas says Vowell allegedly grabbed another gun and shot Chance Black.
That's when the surviving victim charged Vowell, pushing him into the water.
"He grabbed the gun away from Vowell. Hit him with it, knocked him out of the boat, and then he took off with the two injured friends in the boat," Thomas said.
Investigators believe Vowell was able to get up and leave the scene.
This rendition accounts for the presence of two shotguns in Vowell's possession at the time of the shootings. The only thing that seems odd is, was the second shotgun loaded already? If yes, why did Vowell opt to grab a unloaded gun and load it to start shooting them? Yet, it still implies premeditation prior the act of shooting them.
"Just a few seconds after he arrived and asked if he could use the blind, and they said yes, and that's when the survivor noticed him loading his gun, turned around and heard the gunshot, and he thought it was an accident."
The survivor went to help the injured friend, Zachary Grooms, and that's when Thomas says Vowell allegedly grabbed another gun and shot Chance Black.
That's when the surviving victim charged Vowell, pushing him into the water.
"He grabbed the gun away from Vowell. Hit him with it, knocked him out of the boat, and then he took off with the two injured friends in the boat," Thomas said.
Investigators believe Vowell was able to get up and leave the scene.
This rendition accounts for the presence of two shotguns in Vowell's possession at the time of the shootings. The only thing that seems odd is, was the second shotgun loaded already? If yes, why did Vowell opt to grab a unloaded gun and load it to start shooting them? Yet, it still implies premeditation prior the act of shooting them.
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RLLigman said:
What world do you live in where this happens?
Folks make all kinds of statements to the authorities. Those statements are simply passed on to and released to the press. People make up all kinds of stories to claim innocence in questionable circumstances.
Nothing is gained by speculating as to the motive or premeditation or lack of. That is why we have a judicial system.
Michael McCord
Active member
At reelfoot you shoot at high birds, long birds, and high and long birds, so cripple chases are inevitable. Most keep a beater "cripple gun" in the boat so they don't have to step from the blind to the boat with a gun and back again every time it happens, hence the second gun.
It would be an easy oversight for that gun to still be loaded from a previous chase or even a previous hunt while his hunting gun was unloaded for the boat ride. These blinds usually have a curtain between the shooting deck and the back of the blind so if the hunters were on the shooting deck they wouldn't be able to see what was going on behind them.
How often do crimes like these ever make total sense though? Unless Mr Vowell is found alive we will never know the whole story.
It would be an easy oversight for that gun to still be loaded from a previous chase or even a previous hunt while his hunting gun was unloaded for the boat ride. These blinds usually have a curtain between the shooting deck and the back of the blind so if the hunters were on the shooting deck they wouldn't be able to see what was going on behind them.
How often do crimes like these ever make total sense though? Unless Mr Vowell is found alive we will never know the whole story.
Huntindave McCann said:
Dave nailed it. Hard to sort out what happened here, except it's a tragedy.
This is a report I read tonight. I don't know why but something seems off. Seems the details of the witness changes from getting his partners to shore or ramp in a boat and leaving his partners after they were shot and going for help. I hope they find Mr. Vowell and we're able to hear what he has to say.
New details emerge in Reelfoot Lake double homicide investigation - WBBJ TV
This is a Podcast detailing what happened from an interview from the witness.
Back to the Lodge Podcast | Facebook
Prayers to the families.
New details emerge in Reelfoot Lake double homicide investigation - WBBJ TV
This is a Podcast detailing what happened from an interview from the witness.
Back to the Lodge Podcast | Facebook
Prayers to the families.
Dave, I admit, I don't opt to live in the Fox News nurtured QAnon conspiracy world: also why I have no use for any Facebook/Twitter discussions I strongly suspect that you are conflating the actions and statements of career criminals to all violent crime events...they are just not equivalent. I think implying Occam's Razor to the reported events is quite applicabe
My dad was deputy chief of police in Kalamazoo. Over two decades I heard quite a volume of back story heresay evidence discussed over our evening meals that was NEVER released to the papers and never appeared in the press. But that was in the interval prior the arrival of Fox News and niche media reporting designed to nurture and inspire pre-conceptions, as well broaden individual bias, racism and bigotry. We, as a nation, have just witnessed the consequences of that type of news "coverage" where pre-verified factual reporting is ignored for the type of he-said-she-said you imply to be the norm. Somewhere around 12 million people in this country subscribe to the QANON
Again, what is known is that three hours into a duck hunt, a guy approaches three hunters in a blind, all armed. He, too, is armed How he gets close enough to shoot two of them at close range without killing all three is part of the central issue, as well as his motivation to "arrive" well into their hunt from another location. Had there been an exchange of threats? How would he get that close? Was he shot by the blind occupants? Who knows? Can a 70 year old over power or act more quickly than three men half is age and similarly armed to shoot and kill two of them without getting shot when all were armed? How did he arrive at a position close enough to shoot two of them with a shotgun without one of them killing him is the central question, along with, if he didn't fire the first shot, how did he kill two of them from a boat outside the blind before they shot him with one of three loaded guns they had access to? IF they survivor shot and killed him, how would he think to come up with the detail of hearing the suspected killer loading his gun while still in his boat and conclude that was unusual to the expected sequence of him entering the blind and then loading his gun. That is something a bit beyond the realm of "post-crime fiction"...
I got shot in the back , neck and head while rabbit hunting in my late teens. My good friend's brother-in-law had asked to join us with a couple of his friends. Neither of us knew that he and his buddies were "loaded". Arland had nearly zero recollection of the actual events prior me getting shot, largely because he was focused on jumping up and down on brushpiles. Luckily it was winter and I had a heavy canvas upland coat on and a hoodie with a heavy stocking cap under it. It still felt like I had been hit in the with a 2'X4" across my back and head. I had seen a figure to my left and behind me swing on the grouse that jumped behind me and to my right, instinctively turning away and hunching-up from the shooter before I got hit. luckily at a distance where much of the shot barely penetrated my coat. shirt, and long underwear top. My first thought, as I waited to pass-out was to feel the back of my head to determine how much of my skull was missing as I sank down to my knees. I remember viewing my hand and noting how bloody it already was and I remember how loudly my heart was pounding in my ears for some reason. I have zero recollection of the trip to Bronson Hospital's ED even though I didn't pass-out, or much of anything that ensued in the surgery, other than the plink, plink, plink of the ER crew dropping shot in a stainless bowl off my side as they moved the shroud around to work on different sections of my head, neck and shoulder. I had to fill-out a police report immediately. As I said, all I remember vividly was seeing the hunter swinging and seeing the barrels align with me. Initially he claimed it was all ricochet shot, but Arland noted in his rendition that there were no trees, rocks or anything beyond brush near me or where the grouse blew-out. His lie never appeared in the police report, which my dad read to me several days later. My Point?
Massive catecholemine release pretty much destroys any creative writing aspirations people may have, likely for hours after an event like that was so much more traumatic than what I experienced
My dad was deputy chief of police in Kalamazoo. Over two decades I heard quite a volume of back story heresay evidence discussed over our evening meals that was NEVER released to the papers and never appeared in the press. But that was in the interval prior the arrival of Fox News and niche media reporting designed to nurture and inspire pre-conceptions, as well broaden individual bias, racism and bigotry. We, as a nation, have just witnessed the consequences of that type of news "coverage" where pre-verified factual reporting is ignored for the type of he-said-she-said you imply to be the norm. Somewhere around 12 million people in this country subscribe to the QANON
Again, what is known is that three hours into a duck hunt, a guy approaches three hunters in a blind, all armed. He, too, is armed How he gets close enough to shoot two of them at close range without killing all three is part of the central issue, as well as his motivation to "arrive" well into their hunt from another location. Had there been an exchange of threats? How would he get that close? Was he shot by the blind occupants? Who knows? Can a 70 year old over power or act more quickly than three men half is age and similarly armed to shoot and kill two of them without getting shot when all were armed? How did he arrive at a position close enough to shoot two of them with a shotgun without one of them killing him is the central question, along with, if he didn't fire the first shot, how did he kill two of them from a boat outside the blind before they shot him with one of three loaded guns they had access to? IF they survivor shot and killed him, how would he think to come up with the detail of hearing the suspected killer loading his gun while still in his boat and conclude that was unusual to the expected sequence of him entering the blind and then loading his gun. That is something a bit beyond the realm of "post-crime fiction"...
I got shot in the back , neck and head while rabbit hunting in my late teens. My good friend's brother-in-law had asked to join us with a couple of his friends. Neither of us knew that he and his buddies were "loaded". Arland had nearly zero recollection of the actual events prior me getting shot, largely because he was focused on jumping up and down on brushpiles. Luckily it was winter and I had a heavy canvas upland coat on and a hoodie with a heavy stocking cap under it. It still felt like I had been hit in the with a 2'X4" across my back and head. I had seen a figure to my left and behind me swing on the grouse that jumped behind me and to my right, instinctively turning away and hunching-up from the shooter before I got hit. luckily at a distance where much of the shot barely penetrated my coat. shirt, and long underwear top. My first thought, as I waited to pass-out was to feel the back of my head to determine how much of my skull was missing as I sank down to my knees. I remember viewing my hand and noting how bloody it already was and I remember how loudly my heart was pounding in my ears for some reason. I have zero recollection of the trip to Bronson Hospital's ED even though I didn't pass-out, or much of anything that ensued in the surgery, other than the plink, plink, plink of the ER crew dropping shot in a stainless bowl off my side as they moved the shroud around to work on different sections of my head, neck and shoulder. I had to fill-out a police report immediately. As I said, all I remember vividly was seeing the hunter swinging and seeing the barrels align with me. Initially he claimed it was all ricochet shot, but Arland noted in his rendition that there were no trees, rocks or anything beyond brush near me or where the grouse blew-out. His lie never appeared in the police report, which my dad read to me several days later. My Point?
Massive catecholemine release pretty much destroys any creative writing aspirations people may have, likely for hours after an event like that was so much more traumatic than what I experienced
More info contained in the podcast at the following link.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=445282256653282&ref=watch_permalink
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=445282256653282&ref=watch_permalink
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ksherbine said:
Ditto
The degree and scope of my "speculation" inolved one word. I stated that the killings were premeditated. Which the evidence still supports. Dave was the one who questioned the veracity of Mr. Crabtree's rendition of events, assuming you can read for content. ALL of my other specific comments regarding the killings were direct reporting on the evidence released by the TBI, with no speculation regarding motive, intent, or innuendo. The only thing I opted to leave out was an Associated Press report which stated that the two blind owners where shot immediately after opening the blind door, since it was a single source report.
Big changes on the way for TN public hunting. They don't mention the shooting as motivation for the changes, but given the timing of the announcement there must be some cause and effect going on here.
https://www.tn.gov/...m_source=govdelivery
https://www.tn.gov/...m_source=govdelivery
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Michael McCord
Active member
Eric Patterson said:
This is something the commission had been interested in and had been in the works for a while. Reelfoot will actually be one of the least effected WMAs, mainly for safety reasons.
Michael
Are the privately held blinds not part of this proposal, or did they get consumed by the state?
Eric
Are the privately held blinds not part of this proposal, or did they get consumed by the state?
Eric
Eric Patterson said:
I just skimmed this, but man, that seems like a lot of bureaucracy to duck hunt! I'm glad to live in a big state with few duck hunters where all of our coastal waters, lakes and ponds belong the public and permanent blinds are few and far between. Merrymeeting Bay, which is probably the most heavily-hunted spot in the state, has a strict "no permanent blinds" rule. People hunt from boats, from natural cover, or throw together a temporary brush blind. Without the no-blinds rule I think hunting there would be unbearable for a curmudgeon like me.
FWIW, from what I know of the process and speed with which our state agencies role out rulemaking proposals, I bet that one was in the can and ready to go before this incident.
I'm wondering if the autopsy on the recently discovered body will change thinking about what happened.
Jeff Reardon said:
My biggest gripe with duck hunting today. There are so damn many rules, regs, laws, that are just impediments to enjoyment. I think our public lands are over managed. I'm not talking about management for the sake of biology and what is good for waterfowl, I mean management of hunters (draws, reduced hours/days, etc.). I truly believe the rules on public lands could be stripped down. With an emphasis on equal access, teamed with stiff penalties to those that try to deprive others, a lot of print could go away and let us get back to the adventure of finding ducks on public lands. Whenever I host people from other areas I'm reminded of the plethora of regs we contend with, and they are growing annually. Likewise when I visit other states I find the sheer number of regulations intimidating. It has gotten out-of-control, yet the state employees in control have no intentions of simplifying things. More rules, more rules, more rules. Not a damn reg they have implemented around here in the past three years has put more birds in the bag or increased my enjoyment. Just the opposite. I'd like to see efforts on increasing acreage and access to it, not the other way around.
Eric Patterson
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Michael McCord
Active member
Eric Patterson said:
Privately held blinds don't change over to state blinds until the registered owner passes, same as always. These proposed changes are designed to address other issues.