Retriever ain't

C

CK Jackson

Member
We have a young (11 months) Golden who loves to retrieve but won't release the dummy or ball when she brings it back. Apparently, her previous owners played tug of war with her a lot, and she wants to do that.

I've tried the stepping on the toes thing, and that worked once (she's smart!) i've tried threats, but she only runs away and wants to play. I've tried walking away, but then she comes back, more or less grabs my hand with ball in mouth trying to get me to play tug with her. I've tried bribes, and that kind of works, but not always.

It was suggested that I use a shock collar, but SWMBO is against that approach at the moment.

We've been working through other behavior problems, such as aggressiveness, grabbing and jumping with fair success.

I'm open to suggestions. As it stands now, I don't feel I can hunt her as she would want to play tug with the bird (or just run away and eat it), and that isn't acceptable.
 
If the dog is collar conditionned ,it should be an easy task without pain. Ear pinch on command to give, may work. Dummies are not toys but a working tool.Remember you are the boss and the dog must please you or else you are in for a long haul.
Good luck
 
CK,
it sounds like you dont use a collar with the dog now. So adding that to the issue right away will only make it a lot harder.

You need to do some reading on force fetch or force hold.
It is a somewhat long process that results in developing further your control of the dog. But you will be best served to get with a good trainer to help. You have other issues that are underlying the work you are trying to do. It needs to be a full understanding of the whole situation.

Can be done with time and patience, but you will keep from making a lot of mistakes to get with a training group.

Most pro trainers dont have the time to work a dog that has some issues that slow down training, but you can afford the time if you aren't paying by the day.

I recommend Butch Goodwin. But other trainers have good video or book layouts of working a dog.

Also PM Traivs on this site. He knows dogs and can guide you.
 
We have a young (11 months) Golden who loves to retrieve but won't release the dummy or ball when she brings it back. Apparently, her previous owners played tug of war with her a lot, and she wants to do that.

I've tried the stepping on the toes thing, and that worked once (she's smart!) i've tried threats, but she only runs away and wants to play. I've tried walking away, but then she comes back, more or less grabs my hand with ball in mouth trying to get me to play tug with her. I've tried bribes, and that kind of works, but not always.

It was suggested that I use a shock collar, but SWMBO is against that approach at the moment.

We've been working through other behavior problems, such as aggressiveness, grabbing and jumping with fair success.

I'm open to suggestions. As it stands now, I don't feel I can hunt her as she would want to play tug with the bird (or just run away and eat it), and that isn't acceptable.
Click to expand...


Start with some consistant and firm OB - it may take a long time, but you have to stick with it. Once she is properly trained tell her that you are going to get an e-collar for the dog and work on collar conditioning. Best of luck.

T
 
If pup doesn't know or understand the "Give" command, then introducing the e-collar now would be a mistake. That could make it worse or completely turn her off to releasing the bird, or picking it up for that matter. She'll equate "bird in mouth" with getting shocked. Does she respond the first time when called to "Here/Come" or "Heel"? How about "Kennel" or "Sit"? If she does not respond to those basic commands, go back and make sure she responds to perfection (or close to it) before going back to Fetch and Give.

Only do the retrieving thing a few times and ALWAYS end on a positive note. If you only get 3-4 good retrieves and she consistently gives you back the dummy, that is good enough for that day. If she starts to get flakey and she already retrieved and gave you the dummy, call it good and walk away or switch to something else. Don't push your luck. You want to end on a positive note and give lots of praise.




Nate
 
It sounds like the dog does not know the game you want to play with her. She should be taught with a leash on to get something and when she has it in her mouth tell her come and reward her with a good treat (hot dogs, chicken, cheese even spam) and praise with "good give" or "release" which ever word you want. She will be coming willing and releasing real soon. She is only 11 months old and does not understand the game, give her time and have a little patience with her.
 
I have to second what Nate says. When I'm working with a young dog they are always kept on a check cord. Drilling the Here, Heel, Sit commands will help. IMO, Goldens mature a bit slower and tend to be comics longer than shorter-haired breeds. I've had both Goldens and Labs, both have worked out great for me, but Goldens do take more patience early on.
 
Kieth
If it was me the first thing I would do is start the dog at the begining with basic OB training and if you give a command make sure the dog carry,s it out and not allowed to get away with anything. The next thing I would make sure of, is I would,t play any games with it at the moment. Try this and it might help, make yourself a 10ft leash with a slip knot in one end, make this slipknot that it can run free then put it around the dogs kneck, holding the other end of the leash then throw a dummy a few feet away and let the dog run in and pick it up. After the dog has pick it up give the command (come here )
and slowly and gently draw the leash into you, Once the dog has come into you put your thum on the bottom lip towards the back of his mouth and pinch the lip on his tooth and at the same time give the command dead. the dog should open his mouth and you should be able to take the dummy.
Once you have got the dummy in your hand give the pup plenty of praise and make a big fuss of it. this exercise needs to be repeated at regular intervals and at no time should you ever play the game tug of war. My pup Amber try,s it on with me and I say no girl we are not playing that game and I just ignore her.
Take care and God Bless
Eddie and Amber
Its all about Building that Bond.
 
Mine does the opposite. He loves to retrieve. But he is coming back so fast, and hoping to get a treat, that he spits it out at about 3 feet. Hits my hand with his mouth open as he sits......
 
Mike
The simple awnser to your dog dropping the dummy short to come and get the treat his( cut out all the treats ) you should never give a treat for a retrieve because this is what happens in the end.
Take care and God Bless
Eddie and Amber
Its all about Building that Bond.
 
It sounds like you have a number of issues to work through.

If your current goal is to just get the dog to release the bumper I second Eddies advice on the lip pinch. I usually put my hand across muzzle and pinch gum on either side against canine teeth. That will usually get them to open their mouth.

Force fetch is a wonderful tool to build a strong foundation for all future training. Force fetch is about obedience not retrieving.

Tom
 


Start with some consistant and firm OB - it may take a long time, but you have to stick with it. Once she is properly trained tell her that you are going to get an e-collar for the dog and work on collar conditioning. Best of luck.

T
[/QUOTE]

Tod:

It sounds like you have experience with this approach...Does your avatar predate the (presumed) injuries you incurred after your first attempt? Was it worth it? I, like many men, have found that it's easier to obey than force obedience from an unwilling "SWMBO". Just wondering.

Kevin
 
I guess it shows my age... I had to google SWMBO! And the only SWMBO is my mother! I am old enough now and married long enough (26years) to go against the wife's wishes, and proud/dumb enough to take the consequences!

Dave
 
If it was me the first thing I would do is start the dog at the begining with basic OB training and if you give a command make sure the dog carry,s it out and not allowed to get away with anything. The next thing I would make sure of, is I would,t play any games with it at the moment. Try this and it might help, make yourself a 10ft leash with a slip knot in one end, make this slipknot that it can run free then put it around the dogs kneck, holding the other end of the leash then throw a dummy a few feet away and let the dog run in and pick it up. After the dog has pick it up give the command (come here )
and slowly and gently draw the leash into you, Once the dog has come into you put your thum on the bottom lip towards the back of his mouth and pinch the lip on his tooth and at the same time give the command dead. the dog should open his mouth and you should be able to take the dummy.
Once you have got the dummy in your hand give the pup plenty of praise and make a big fuss of it. this exercise needs to be repeated at regular intervals and at no time should you ever play the game tug of war. My pup Amber try,s it on with me and I say no girl we are not playing that game and I just ignore her.
Take care and God Bless
Eddie and Amber
Its all about Building that Bond.
Click to expand...


CK,

Eddie is giving you some great advice here. Try what he says & be patiently committed to spending at least a month working on it. It's the long way around, but I bet if you strap on a collar with the idea that the "thunder of Zeus" will be the fix, you'll do more damage than you can imagine.
 
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Start with some consistant and firm OB - it may take a long time, but you have to stick with it. Once she is properly trained tell her that you are going to get an e-collar for the dog and work on collar conditioning. Best of luck.

T
Click to expand...

Tod:

It sounds like you have experience with this approach...Does your avatar predate the (presumed) injuries you incurred after your first attempt? Was it worth it? I, like many men, have found that it's easier to obey than force obedience from an unwilling "SWMBO". Just wondering.

Kevin
[/QUOTE]


Kevin,

That was my best advice in a remedial situation. I suggest avoiding SWMBO types at all costs as as a general practice.

T
 

CK what Nate and Bob said. If you try to correct this with a collar
, you are just going to re enforce the sticking problem.
You need to be firm in getting the dog to release, but always be giving positive reinforcement As bob said apply some pressure (pain) by applying pressure with the lip against the teeth. As soon as the dog releases give plenty of praise. This will take a few SHORT sessions a couple times a day. The dog will start to learn that once they comply this shuts off the pressure.
Never use a collar for training unless the dog totally understands what shuts off pressure !!!!!!
It’s a training tool not a teaching tool
 
Tom
Here in the UK we train our dogs with love and Building a Bond with them, If I had my way I would put all e-collers in a bin and burn them all, everybody
is entitled to their own views and this is mine, when you have got to shock a dog to submit, to me that is not training your dog but forcing it to do something it does,nt want to do. If the dog is of the right material I.E. from working parents there is no need to resort to these measures if trained properly and the pup will retrieve for the love of it.
Take care and God Bless
Eddie and Amber
Its all about Building that Bond.
 
Eddie Ifm not going to waste my time defending the collar. What I will say there isnft a more valuable tool in the trained hand.
We use indirect pressure not direct pressure. Todays collars are so sophisticated itfs not constantly burning a dog. You are not forcing a dog to do what is doesnft want to do. Ie If you send your dog on a water retrieve and he skirts the bank and doesnft enter the water. The correction is not to burn the dog giving a handle to enter the water (Direct pressure). The correction is to whistle the dog in to the spot where the cheating started. You would blow a whistle and command sit. Then nick with collar and command sit again. (Indirect pressure ) and handle from there.
Genetics will only get you so far.
@
 
[

Start with some consistant and firm OB - it may take a long time, but you have to stick with it. Once she is properly trained tell her that you are going to get an e-collar for the dog and work on collar conditioning. Best of luck.

T[/QUOTE]


Been married way too long to try this approach. I lost that game a long time ago...now I just have to be sneaky.

There is some great advice here, and I thank you all for it. One of my friends, who has trained numerous dogs, suggested the collar, but it didn't seem quite right, given the response Dog has to being disciplined. I did do some google reading on force training, and what I've come up with so far seems like it should work. At least it did this afternoon.

We still have plenty of issues to work through, but I'm starting to put a plan in place. I've had two other dogs, both Labs, and one was great (one wasn't), but they both got the idea of leaving the dummy right away--that it meant they could then go retrieve again. This Golden isn't tuned that way.

One thing I've had to realize is that she is still a pup--despite tipping the scales at close to 60 pounds. In her defense--and praise-- she learns very fast; she's smarter than I am (re: Tod's remarks above). And she's a going to be a great water dog. She loves swimming...and cold water doesn't stop her at all.

Thanks again, guys. I should have asked this question earlier.
 
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