Sanford Gunning Box?

[Troy Nicolls]

Anyone familiar with the Sanford Gunning Box? I know it was intended as a "gunning box", but has anyone who has built one used it on open water of any kind? I was thinking about building one for fun but am curious about it's versatility before I commit to buying materials. Looking for a cheap and easy multipurpose boat build.

 

[davidwalton]

The designer, Steve Sanford, is on here. There have been a few made by folks on here. I can't speak of use on open water myself but I would image it would be a bit small.

 

[Carl]

I bet Mr Sanford is! He’ll reply soon I imagine.

 

[Eric Patterson]

The search feature will give you hours of reading on this subject. The Resources entry will give more info and has a link to Steve's website with even more info.

https://duckboats.net/community/resources/sanford-gunning-box.60/

 

[roy brewington]

I believe hes mentioned in his building notes boat wasn,t designed to support a hunters weight afloat stability wise.

 

[Josh Schwenger]

Anyone familiar with the Sanford Gunning Box? I know it was intended as a "gunning box", but has anyone who has built one used it on open water of any kind? I was thinking about building one for fun but am curious about it's versatility before I commit to buying materials. Looking for a cheap and easy multipurpose boat build.

It is not for the purpose you are describing. Mr. Sanford is the expert but I have built 5 and it's what I hunt from 90% of the time. I have used it to float decoys across a pond and when I have been stuck in the mud I have used it to get myself out.

 

[Steve Sanford]

Troy~

As others have explained, my gunning box was never intended to be hunted or shot from when fully afloat. It is too short and too narrow to do so safely. Although they tow nicely (with decoys inside for ballast but never guns, ammo or cameras etc) when getting to a bit or marsh or sandbar (or cornfield), they will not trim properly unless they are supported by bog, mud or sand. A little pothole with no more than 2 or 3 inches of water can provide an exceptional hide - and many memorable hunts in my case.

For gunning open water, the minimum dimensions - in my experience - are 10 feet LOA (length over all) and 44 inches beam (maximum width of hull).

Having grown up on Long Island's Great South Bay, I am partial to Scooters for open water work - which includes "airholes" when the Bay is iced over. This vessel was built in the 1920s or '30s by Dodge & Krowl of Islip, NY. (I grew up in East Islip.) It is about 14-feet LOA with 5 feet of beam.



Here is another Dodge & Krowl hard at work..... Broadbill were the usual quarry for these rigs.



I could talk for days about Great South Bay Scooters. This is the TED SANFORD - which I named for my Dad when I restored several years ago.



I just gave this Scooter - built by Olin Smith of Babylon pre-WW II - to a friend in Ontario. He is hard at a thoughtful and careful restoration.



One option to consider is to modify a Sunfish hull. This happens to be its smaller brother - the Minifish. Either is big enough for safe open water gunning.



Hope this helps!

SJS

 

[Troy Nicolls]

Troy~

As others have explained, my gunning box was never intended to be hunted or shot from when fully afloat. It is too short and too narrow to do so safely. Although they tow nicely (with decoys inside for ballast but never guns, ammo or cameras etc) when getting to a bit or marsh or sandbar (or cornfield), they will not trim properly unless they are supported by bog, mud or sand. A little pothole with no more than 2 or 3 inches of water can provide an exceptional hide - and many memorable hunts in my case.

For gunning open water, the minimum dimensions - in my experience - are 10 feet LOA (length over all) and 44 inches beam (maximum width of hull).

Having grown up on Long Island's Great South Bay, I am partial to Scooters for open water work - which includes "airholes" when the Bay is iced over. This vessel was built in the 1920s or '30s by Dodge & Krowl of Islip, NY. (I grew up in East Islip.) It is about 14-feet LOA with 5 feet of beam.

View attachment 70847

Here is another Dodge & Krowl hard at work..... Broadbill were the usual quarry for these rigs.

View attachment 70848

I could talk for days about Great South Bay Scooters. This is the TED SANFORD - which I named for my Dad when I restored several years ago.

View attachment 70849

I just gave this Scooter - built by Olin Smith of Babylon pre-WW II - to a friend in Ontario. He is hard at a thoughtful and careful restoration.

View attachment 70850

One option to consider is to modify a Sunfish hull. This happens to be its smaller brother - the Minifish. Either is big enough for safe open water gunning.

View attachment 70851

Hope this helps!

SJS

Steve
That helps very much. Looks like you have a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience wrapped up in your east coast historical hunting craft, but I think I already knew that! I only built a few small boats, kayaks, sculls etc, but generally speaking a very different kind of hunting. I'm still thinking on building your gunning float as it's very basic, inexpensive, and a good leader for folks on the fence about boat building. I guess I should have known better to use the term "open water" when speaking of a gunning float. I guess a better way to word the question might have been, "could it be used to carry ones self across a shallow, muddy, open section of marsh to access a tule patch on the other side?" I suppose given the demissions and gunnel height, probably not. It still looks like a very useful float for use in any wet marsh. The way you build them makes them look quite capable. Thank you for the detailed reply!

 

[Bill Ferrar]

I saw one being paddled on a slow stream upstate. It looked very tipsy. the stream was not very wide. So if the box tipped he was only a few feet from shore.

 

[Troy Nicolls]

I saw one being paddled on a slow stream upstate. It looked very tipsy. the stream was not very wide. So if the box tipped he was only a few feet from shore.

Great info. I'm stiull hoping to build one knowing full well it is not intended to be rowed or paddled. However.... I have a pond on my property

 

[Steve Sanford]

Great info. I'm stiull hoping to build one knowing full well it is not intended to be rowed or paddled. However.... I have a pond on my property

Good morning, Troy~

If you are going to tempt Fate...make your box full length. I usually make mine as "long" as I am - 5'10" and rest the soles of my boots on the transom. However, I have made others as long as the plywood would allow - for my taller guests.

Nevertheless, I hope your pond is shallow.....

All the best,

SJS

 

[Steve Sanford]

I saw one being paddled on a slow stream upstate. It looked very tipsy. the stream was not very wide. So if the box tipped he was only a few feet from shore.

Young Man~

As you know from long experience with Cap'n Stickler Fussbudget, correct terminology is paramount - at least when it entails boats....

Thus, it must be noted that "tipsy" refers to a state of inebriation. You may mean "tippy" - but that is a lubberly adjective to be avoided anywhere within a mile or so of Great South Bay (or even navigable waters upstate...). A vessel that is unstable when afloat - port to starboard and vicey-versey - is properly described as "tender".

In any event, a Sanford Gunning Box when occupied by a gunner and in waters more than an inch or two deep is truly tender. The whole rig is likely to founder (fill with water and sink) - and even "turn turtle" (capsize) if the water is deep enough. Can you fathom that?

All the best - and I hope you have a fine day afield tomorrow!

SJS

 

[roy brewington]

Steve I guess you,ll just have to do a set of plans for a similar bx. but built to 8' to 10' lenght & say 36" to 44" wide on bottom. Just something to keep you occupied. LOL

 

[Capt Rich Geminski]

I have a 1930/1940 cedar marsh box made of cedar plank. It was from the Frankenback family on long island. They were left in the creek tied to trees and sat in the marsh to shoot out of. They sat on the ground, not floated, most were towed to the spot for gunning.

 

[Anthony Babich]

I have a few different "Sanford Boxes / Marsh Poxes / Pond Boxes" in the arsenal, if it's any help I can say the one that felt most-stable when needed to cross a bit of open water was made by Higbee. This Higbee below is my go-too box with a custom cover made by Dave Clark. Super lightweight, tows very well behind the garvey and hides amazing. There are a few out there I know last season guy had 2 in NJ. Might be worth a look to save some time too..








The inspiration behind it all....

 

[Steve Sanford]

Anthony~

Got LOA and beam for the Higbee? I remember when I first saw this box (a year or so again?) that the cockpit opening is aft of the bow (forward transom). That would certainly help move the center of mass aft - so she would be more likely to trim better along her length. (I still prefer my " open down to your toes" canvas, though - for ease and speed of egress when a bird goes down....)

As Roy had suggested above, I had toyed around with the idea of a longer, wider coffin - that could tow across the bay - then drag and paddle into good gunning. I left Long Island before I could follow through with the R&D. Any such craft would, of course, abandon the "single sheet of plywood" criterion from my original design.

Best of luck tomorrow!

SJS