Saskatchewan Follows Manitoba

Adam Dyck said:
What would it be like for an freelance hunter to come from Saskatchewan down to, say, Arkansas or North Dakota, to go do some waterfowl hunting? Would they have trouble getting access? Do the outfitters and duck clubs have things locked up?
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Adam,
Yes, that would be the case. The last time my wife and I drove across the Dakotas to bring our camper back from Oklahoma, we had the Onyx app on and both states are virtually locked up. I see hunting in both our counties headed towards a non-egalitarian/elitist arrangement where only the wealthy can hunt, such as in Europe. I hope you province doesn't follow our example.
RM
 
Dani said:
Adam,

I will preface this with I have never hunted ND or AR but non-resident rules are not strictly for people from another country. I can't speak from the experience of coming down from Canada but as someone who drives up from FL (sure seems like a different country) to hunt, I have found most states have public land available. While this experience is more upland related, but if I wanted to hunt private land, I would do the research to find out who the landowner was and ask if I could hunt. Sometimes the owner would say sorry, only certain folk can hunt it, sometimes they would say sure. I imagine that AR the private land is probably more locked up than ND. But looking at ND's opportunities for public access bird hunting, there is a lot of public and private land that allows sportsman access.
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Dani,
ND and SD have the same five day rule being proposed in Saskatchewan. Yes, there are public lands available but since everyone electronically posted their land, you can imagine how hard these areas are hit. It was a slap in the face to our family of hunters who for years supported Pheasants Forever.
The really sad part of all this monetization was that the residents themselves are finding access difficult.
RM
 
RM Anderson said:
Dani,
ND and SD have the same five day rule being proposed in Saskatchewan. Yes, there are public lands available but since everyone electronically posted their land, you can imagine how hard these areas are hit. It was a slap in the face to our family of hunters who for years supported Pheasants Forever.
The really sad part of all this monetization was that the residents themselves are finding access difficult.
RM
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I'm noticing some land owners have stopped answering the phone since they are sick of all the requests. Some just let one person or outfitter on their land for the same reason, and others only let local outfitters/hunters on their land. Makes for interesting scouting! I try to differentiate myself from the US outfits by donating a lot of my time and money locally, which helps, but it's still getting pretty fragmented.
 
Adam Dyck said:
I'm noticing some land owners have stopped answering the phone since they are sick of all the requests. Some just let one person or outfitter on their land for the same reason, and others only let local outfitters/hunters on their land. Makes for interesting scouting! I try to differentiate myself from the US outfits by donating a lot of my time and money locally, which helps, but it's still getting pretty fragmented.
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I have been going to Sask. for 30 years. and have been following this very closely. I just spoke with someone from the Ministry of Environment. They recommend sending letters to them with your concerns. env.minister@gov.sk.ca . Maybe it is not to late. I wish I had keep a record of what I have spent and donated to the town I go to.
 
Sonny Williams said:
I have been going to Sask. for 30 years. and have been following this very closely. I just spoke with someone from the Ministry of Environment. They recommend sending letters to them with your concerns. env.minister@gov.sk.ca . Maybe it is not to late. I wish I had keep a record of what I have spent and donated to the town I go to.
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Sonny,
Thanks for the suggestion. I agree that it may not be too late. After witnessing what similar legislation did to the Dakota's, it would be a shame for the Provinces to follow our lead. In fact, it is the very reason my wife and I hunt Saskatchewan and not closer to home. Call it greed, shortsightedness or whatever you want, it is destroying the fabric of our hunting heritage and in the end will hurt Canadian residents as well. Perhaps you would be willing to post your letter here to get people motivated to send their own.
RM
 
RM Anderson said:
Sonny,
Thanks for the suggestion. I agree that it may not be too late. After witnessing what similar legislation did to the Dakota's, it would be a shame for the Provinces to follow our lead. In fact, it is the very reason my wife and I hunt Saskatchewan and not closer to home. Call it greed, shortsightedness or whatever you want, it is destroying the fabric of our hunting heritage and in the end will hurt Canadian residents as well. Perhaps you would be willing to post your letter here to get people motivated to send their own.
RM
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I was hoping by the number of people here that have responded, would be enough to get people motivated. I have reached out to so many people in Sask. that run restaurants, hotels, gas stations , local farmers and friends I sure hope it is not too late . It would be a shame to disrupt the friendships I have made.
 
RM Anderson said:
2023 Survey of Non-resident Saskatchewan Hunters

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com acrobat.adobe.com
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Good info, thanks for posting.

In my mind there are probably three ways the outfitter question is being interpreted, how may depend on who is reading it coupled with other answers.

1. Hunters see that there are opportunities to hunt and bag waterfowl without paying for a guide.

2. SK resident guides see competition (4 of 5 hunters) that will never pay them.

3. The regulator reasons that most hunters stay under 10 days and don't use a guide, so limiting the days to 10 is not a burden to anyone.

FWIW, I've spoken to three friends who've hunted SK multiple times. None have hunted together that I know of. Two go on their own, one with a guide. The one who goes with a guide said the guide always paid the landowner at the end of the day. One of the other guys says he always offers, most landowners accept, but a few decline. The third said his party leaves an envelope by the door or in the box with a thank you. I did not ask how much anyone paid.
 
mailto:env.minister@gov.sk.ca
cc. Community at duckboats.net
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Recently we were asked to submit letters to your office in the hope that you would reconsider the changes that you have made in regards to nonresident hunters.
Twenty four years ago Gov John Hoeven enacted similar legislation in the neighboring state of North Dakota. At the same time he made it easier for business people to capitalize on out of state hunters, thus abandoning the North American Wildlife Management Model and ushering in the current wildlife management model supporting guiding operations we see today. The effects of this legislation was swift and in the opinion of many, detrimental. Out of state hunters who for years have contributed to conservation efforts such as Ducks Unlimited and Pheasants Forever viewed this as a slap in the face. Hunters who were separated by only their Minnesota address could no longer hunt the full season with their North Dakota friends and families. Landowners and farmers were quick to adapt to payments allowing access to their land while denying it to others. To illustrate this, on a recent trip to Oklahoma City to pick up a toy hauler my wife Heather and I purchased, we drove home through North and South Dakota. While driving my wife had her Onyx app turned on and the images were alarming. Virtually all private lands in both states were electronically posted. This of course is the reason my wife Heather and I traveled to your beautiful province to hunt last fall. We were astounded by your friendly citizens that welcomed us. At no time were we turned away and everyone we asked urged us to come back the following year. We offered no incentive to allow us to hunt nor was there any request from any of the farmers. A warm handshake and our gratitude was all they required. Our impact upon the land was minimal, save for our footprints across your prairies. Isn't this what hunting was meant to be? Must we profit from nature's bounty while excluding others who do not want or need the services of a guide? Monetization of game resources is a cancer that will quickly spread as it did in our own country. Are you so naive as to believe that this same thing will not happen in Saskatchewan with under the table agreements to lock up land in exchange for money? If so, please ask the resident hunters in the Dakotas who have now found themselves with no place to hunt except state and federal lands which are overrun with hunters. Finally, while I realize the stated intent of this new law was to help eliminate illegal guiding operations, how will it help anyone but the guiding operations already in existence? How will this change affect the resource? Ducks Unlimited directs 80-90% of its annual expenditures to habitat conservation efforts, largely in Canada. Do you suppose that outfitters will make up the difference when freelance hunters such as myself are locked out? The effects of this new legislation will be profound and I would encourage you to visit our Website Thread 'Saskatchewan Follows Manitoba'
https://duckboats.net/community/threads/saskatchewan-follows-manitoba.356272/ for other's views on this subject.
Sincerely, Richard Anderson
 
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RM

Your letter made a lot of great points. Please post any reply they give you. As for the court case I didn't understand the entire legal summary because I'm not a lawyer and I find some of the words and phrases difficult to follow. I did find the SK survey analysis, including its reference to Bonferroni, much easier to digest. But the sad take away to me is states can pass any law they want to prevent non-residents from hunting. Never mind it being a federally managed public resource. When it's in your state your legislators have total control. Not what I wanted to hear. Makes about as much sense as South Dakota limiting non-residents from visiting Mt. Rushmore.
 
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It seems like there is a misconception that this is a battle between outfitters and freelancers, and that the outfitters have all the power. Neither is true. The problem is increased competition for hunting land as a result of SK being the last province that doesn't regulate non-resident freelancing, and recent growth in outfitting activity, which is also basically unregulated. Both are being addressed, it just happens that the freelancing came first. This is not because of any outside influence by the outfitting industry. Hotel owners, DU, and other pro-freelance groups have a say as well.
 
Adam Dyck said:
It seems like there is a misconception that this is a battle between outfitters and freelancers, and that the outfitters have all the power. Neither is true. The problem is increased competition for hunting land as a result of SK being the last province that doesn't regulate non-resident freelancing, and recent growth in outfitting activity, which is also basically unregulated. Both are being addressed, it just happens that the freelancing came first. This is not because of any outside influence by the outfitting industry. Hotel owners, DU, and other pro-freelance groups have a say as well.
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Adam,
Thanks for your insight. When this thread first began, I have to admit that I actually believed that the purpose of the new regulations was to combat illegal guiding by Americans. At face value it made sense; limit a nonresident to two five day periods in the fall to prevent guiding. Fortunately, I kept an open mind and did some digging on my own. Some pretty lengthy internet searches revealed that the vast majority of illegal guiding operations were actually perpetrated by Canadian citizens. The freelance hunters, like so many on this thread have pointed out, are not the problem. Further investigations in web forums revealed conflicts between outfitters and freelance hunters over fields that apparently both had permission to hunt. I can understand how a guide would feel being under pressure to perform for his clients. I also understand Saskatchewan receiving additional hunting pressure because of Manitoba and Alberta limitations on nonresident hunters. What I don't think your leaders understand is that this is going to come back and bite all Saskatchewan hunters in the ass. I literally watched this same thing unfold in the Dakotas twenty five years ago. These states basically handed wildlife management over to private enterprise on a silver platter. Today, their own citizens are left to hunt public land overrun with hunters or PLOTS land which is basically worthless for hunting. The vast majority of good private land has been leased up by outfitters.
To further compound the problem, many operations release pen raised pheasants to supplement low wild bird populations from diminished habitat. Already we are seeing the same problem with pheasants as we have with mallard DNA caused by hybridization from game farm stock. Every reported instance of CWD is a result of high fence hunting. This could very well be Saskatchewan's future; be careful what you wish for.
RM
 
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Adam Dyck said:
It seems like there is a misconception that this is a battle between outfitters and freelancers, and that the outfitters have all the power. Neither is true. The problem is increased competition for hunting land as a result of SK being the last province that doesn't regulate non-resident freelancing, and recent growth in outfitting activity, which is also basically unregulated. Both are being addressed, it just happens that the freelancing came first. This is not because of any outside influence by the outfitting industry. Hotel owners, DU, and other pro-freelance groups have a say as well.
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Bull Crap
 
RM Anderson said:
Adam,
Thanks for your insight. When this thread first began, I have to admit that I actually believed that the purpose of the new regulations was to combat illegal guiding by Americans. At face value it made sense; limit a nonresident to two five day periods in the fall to prevent guiding. Fortunately, I kept an open mind and did some digging on my own. Some pretty lengthy internet searches revealed that the vast majority of illegal guiding operations were actually perpetrated by Canadian citizens. The freelance hunters, like so many on this thread have pointed out, are not the problem. Further investigations in web forums revealed conflicts between outfitters and freelance hunters over fields that apparently both had permission to hunt. I can understand how a guide would feel being under pressure to perform for his clients. I also understand Saskatchewan receiving additional hunting pressure because of Manitoba and Alberta limitations on nonresident hunters. What I don't think your leaders understand is that this is going to come back and bite all Saskatchewan hunters in the ass. I literally watched this same thing unfold in the Dakotas twenty five years ago. These states basically handed wildlife management over to private enterprise on a silver platter. Today, their own citizens are left to hunt public land overrun with hunters or PLOTS land which is basically worthless for hunting. The vast majority of good private land has been leased up by outfitters.
To further compound the problem, many operations release pen raised pheasants to supplement low wild bird populations from diminished habitat. Already we are seeing the same problem with pheasants as we have with mallard DNA caused by hybridization from game farm stock. Every reported instance of CWD is a result of high fence hunting. This could very well be Saskatchewan's future; be careful what you wish for.
RM
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I think I see your point, although leaving things the way they are is unsustainable in regards to access to hunting grounds. I live here, am friends with many of the local farmers/landowner, and spend my winters at the curling rink with them. Many are seeing a huge uptick in the calls and texts they receive during hunting season for permission, an are getting a little fed up. These farmers are often working 16 hour days and have better things to do than help us out, but they do anyway at no benefit to themselves. As an outfitter I know that the success of my business depends on their goodwill, and I spend as much of my money and time as I am able locally to maintain it (NOT by paying for access). In my opinion, if we allow outfitters to grow unrestricted, and continue to be the only province that does not limit freelance hunting, we will end up where land access is limited to a select few anyway. I fear the horse may be out of the barn on the outfitter side of things, since I doubt the province will ask businesses to shrink. Government does tend to screw up anything they stick their nose in, but my fingers are crossed.
 
Gentlemen, the answer is money. Now what is the question??

Btw, a somewhat similar situation applies to Steelhead in British Columbia. It wouldn't surprise me to see non residents aliens (i.e., US citizens & Europeans) subject to 10 days maximum fly fishing (unless guided and/or staying at a lodge) for steelhead in the very near future. Not to mention a big financial increase in licenses and river stamps that non resident aliens will have to pay to play.

I will eventually get priced out of Canada (it's their country, so they are free to do whatever they think is best for them) for fly fishing for Steelhead and gunning waterfowl and upland game. After all, hunting and fishing is rapidly becoming a rich man's sport and the little man is left on the outside looking in and holding the bag as well. Check out the costs of mountain sheep and goat hunts around the globe. Yikes! You want to spend a few days Marlin fishing? Even Elon Musk says "HOW MUCH?!?!?" Good luck to all.
 
MT Wetlands said:
I will eventually get priced out of Canada (it's their country, so they are free to do whatever they think is best for them) for fly fishing for Steelhead and gunning waterfowl and upland game. After all, hunting and fishing is rapidly becoming a rich man's sport and the little man is left on the outside looking in and holding the bag as well. Check out the costs of mountain sheep and goat hunts around the globe. Yikes! You want to spend a few days Marlin fishing? Even Elon Musk says "HOW MUCH?!?!?" Good luck to all.
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MT,
Agreed; I used to love hunting big game in Alaska until I could not justify the prices any more. Back in the day, a guided trip to Alaska was between $1,000-$1,500 per day for a ten day guided trip. Now they are charging that per day for pheasant hunting in the Dakotas.
Having said that, we are having more fun now freelancing with our GWP, Berta. We also got into hunting turkey which is a blast as well. I see that you are a new member; welcome to duckboats.net!
RM
 
Adam Dyck said:
What would it be like for an freelance hunter to come from Saskatchewan down to, say, Arkansas or North Dakota, to go do some waterfowl hunting? Would they have trouble getting access? Do the outfitters and duck clubs have things locked up?
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I know a few Sk residents that do exactly that [hunt and fishing in various states like AR, OK FL] They meet up with the friends they have made with freelancers and hunt and fish with them. I have had some go with me on spring turkey hunts and saltwater fishing, ect. We all had a great time!
 
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