Saskatchewan Follows Manitoba

Eric Patterson

Eric Patterson

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The stated goal is to combat illegal guiding. What are the typical offenses that make these outfitters illegal? Are the violations disproportionately from US outfitters? I wonder how many freelance hunters are affected by this. I'm talking about folks who set up camp and chase ducks all over the landscape for weeks at a time. No more of that unless you are Canadian. This is thanks to the guides that place themselves above the law and abuse the resource and land. Their actions keep law abiding US hunters from enjoying the resource. I would have rather they were caught, penalized, and deported as the case may be.

I do question how they intend to solve illegal guiding for their own citizens. Or was it only the US outfitters breaking the law? How can that be? This smells of Canada once again putting up walls to prevent US citizens from freelancing while propping up their own citizen outfitters. Can someone explain how this law solves the illegal guiding? I am sick to death of the average freelance hunter getting squeezed off the land by laws passed by locals for the locals. I don't know, maybe this time there is a legitimate problem being solved. But I cannot find the specifics in the reporting. I wish they would state exactly what the problem is. It is all so damn vague. From where I sit it looks and feels like CA is once again writing laws for the benefit of their outfitters at the expense of the average non-resident person who wants to hunt more than 5 days.

https://www.saskatchewan.ca/governm...n-resident-game-bird-licences-in-saskatchewan

 
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For many years in the 1990's and early 2000's our group of guys (usually 4) would hunt waterfowl in Sask. for weeks at a time. We NEVER took anyone else hunting unless a farmer asked to take his children, and we gladly obliged. We made many good friends there and we each looked forward to seeing each other and spending time together, especially after the harvest parties. The freelance hunters were small groups that had gone there for years and were always welcome.

When the War on Snow Geese began large trailers to carry decoys & gear in convoys began to show up at the boarder crossings with many hunters. We knew the future did not look good, and it went from bad to worse. To say that what has happened is a shame is a understatement. Unless you have seen it for yourself over many days and much traveling to scout you cannot believe the amount of DU projects, wetlands, and the massive amount of birds. It's not about the killing, it's about witnessing what your eyes and ears are seeing and hearing.

Now all I read about is flying in and Shooting for 3 days, and killing as many birds as ya can. That IS NOT HUNTING. Nor is it good for the local economy and for establishing very good long term relationships. I'm glad I'm as old as I am and done the things I've done. Thank God.

my 2 cents
 
Saskatchewan is still an improvement over the Dakotas where everything is leased up by Outfitters. If this new policy addresses that, then I can see their point. At least in Saskatchewan nonresident freelancers are still welcome. RM
 
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Because a lot of the US guys that come up and pay to play dont bring home their game meat. They have the money to fly in and fly out. They get told by said guide that the meat will go to XYZ, all the while it gets tossed into a ditch later that week. The guy who paid to play never knows any different. I'm not pointing fingers. I'm parroting the actual cause and effect offenses. More nonsense "common sense" laws put in place that do not care how the DIY hunter is affected.

I wonder if this plus other recent political changes will up South American hunter tourism?
 
RM

Just another reason I feel it is time outfitters begin paying taxes for their use of a public resource. Further, regulation is needed to balance the scales so the average joe who just wants to hunt ducks on land without a guide can.

Steven

Exactly that. More laws that block out those who probably tread the lightest on the resource in favor of those unaffected or even profiting and not giving a damn about the resource. I keep saying it, guiding needs to be taxed and regulated. It is a full blown industry that uses a public resource and too often with little regard.
 
Steven Alexander said:
Because a lot of the US guys that come up and pay to play dont bring home their game meat. They have the money to fly in and fly out. They get told by said guide that the meat will go to XYZ, all the while it gets tossed into a ditch later that week. The guy who paid to play never knows any different. I'm not pointing fingers. I'm parroting the actual cause and effect offenses. More nonsense "common sense" laws put in place that do not care how the DIY hunter is affected.

I wonder if this plus other recent political changes will up South American hunter tourism?
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Steven,
Guess I'm naive because I had no idea folks were doing this. Perhaps the initial mistake was made by allowing unlimited possession limits thereby diminishing the value of a resource? RM
 
How does limiting my individual license to hunt to only 5 days (10 total) stop illegal outfitters? (I've never hunted North of MT, just curious)

I know SC boys who prostitute waterfowl at every opportunity no matter the State or Country. Will the non resident outfitter be limited to two 5 day licenses?

Personally, I have zero use for guides. Waterfowl are my passion, killing them for $ and social influence is like pimping your sister.
 
Paul Taylor said:
How does limiting my individual license to hunt to only 5 days (10 total) stop illegal outfitters? (I've never hunted North of MT, just curious)
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If you pay attention to the details in the above article you can see they interviewed SCPO Board Chair Jordan Rowswell. SCPO is Saskatchewan Commission of Professional Outfitters. There is zero doubt in my mind this organization wanted this law because it benefits Saskatchewan outfitters, and creates a giant barrier for US hunters. By limiting non-residents they reduce competition for land and increase the population of potential clients. Both you and I have the same question, how does this fix illegal outfitting? What outfitting laws were being broken and by whom? The only explanation I can come up with is US citizens are residing in CA all hunting season and guiding. By limiting them they will have a hard time running clients for any length of time. This means more business for Saskatchewan outfitters and less opportunity for freelance hunters.
 
Both you and I have the same question, how does this fix illegal outfitting?
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I'd suggest the theory is that the non resident "illegal guides" buy a season license and tell the paying sports to say that they are all just hunting buddies should the game warden inquire. By limiting the license to 10 days/5 days, the opportunity for that scam decreases. If the wardens catch a guy with no license hanging around with a truckload of gear and other guys using it, pinch.

What I find interesting is that they don't differentiate for CA citizens from other provinces. My first thought was that this is an anti-American hunter thing, because the US is on their shit list politically right now. Apparently not.
 
I only hunt in Maine, where access to water is as good as it gets anywhere. Every navigable stream, every square foot below the high tide line, and below the normal high water line on all lakes and ponds > 10 acres are open to the public. There are no private blinds to speak of, and the one place in the state where there was even a hint of outfitters locking up the best blind locations was stymied with a site-specific regulation that bans permanent blinds or leaving out decoys overnight. IMHO--as a private hunter without the means or inclination to hire guides--that's how it ought to be. And it works here just fine for waterfowling, including for those who guide. But that's partly because we don't have a huge number of waterfowlers, so competition is pretty light. Howeve, those same liberal public access also apply for anglers, and there, we do have a number of rivers that are heavily overused--to the extent that despite the fact they are the state's best brook trout waters and I have been fishing them for 40 years, I don't go there any more except mid-week with snotty weather when the crowds are down. Forget about a weekend or holiday. And much of the pressure is from out-of-state anglers, many of them guided. Hard to blame either the anglers or the guides for focusing on those rivers. They are the ones that show up in magazine articles and on social media. But it has completely destroyed what used to be a relaxing on the water. Fortunately, there is plenty of good water that's not as well known where I can still find trout and solitude, but I can foresse a day when some of those rivers will need some kind of rationing. Golf has tee times; bowling alleys let you reserve a lane. On crowded trout streams, it's first come first served, and often now that means if you don't occupy a spot before first light, someone else will have their boots planted there and not move all day.
 
SJ

I believe you are correct. In doing some digging I find a non-resident can own an outfitter business in Saskatchewan but there are more hurdles to jump through than if the owner is a Saskatchewan resident. The new law certainly makes it harder for US guides to circumvent outfitter regulations like they've been doing. Fair enough. That wasn't really my concern. My problem is freelance hunters now have greatly restricted access, and the upper hand has been given to Saskatchewan outfitters.
 
Eric Patterson said:
SJ

I believe you are correct. In doing some digging I find a non-resident can own an outfitter business in Saskatchewan but there are more hurdles to jump through than if the owner is a Saskatchewan resident. The new law certainly makes it harder for US guides to circumvent outfitter regulations like they've been doing. Fair enough. That wasn't really my concern. My problem is freelance hunters now have greatly restricted access, and the upper hand has been given to Saskatchewan outfitters.
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I second SJ Fairbanks theory. I wonder if the two five day periods can run concurrently or with a day separation, etc. Again, I don't believe it will affect most non resident hunters as most trips are once per season and under ten days. Folks driving from the east coast may see it differently because of the long drive. Either way, I guess I will find out this fall how the new law has affected the hunting. If the regulation actually curtails illegal guiding operations then it is not necessarily a bad thing.
Interestingly, my wife and I sat next to a biologists who works for Manitoba's DNR at our DU State Convention. She was super nice and was excited to meet us because of our travels to Saskatchewan duck hunting last year. At no time did I get the impression that American hunters are not wanted. Quite the opposite as she suggested several new areas try with even better hunting.
RM
 
Eric Patterson said:
SJ

I believe you are correct. In doing some digging I find a non-resident can own an outfitter business in Saskatchewan but there are more hurdles to jump through than if the owner is a Saskatchewan resident. The new law certainly makes it harder for US guides to circumvent outfitter regulations like they've been doing. Fair enough. That wasn't really my concern. My problem is freelance hunters now have greatly restricted access, and the upper hand has been given to Saskatchewan outfitters.
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You're preaching to the choir. You know how I feel about guides. Guides will be the end of hunting in the traditional sense in the US, and apparently, Canada.
 
RM

Just so you know the new laws by MB and now SA derailed my post-retirement hunting plans. I intended to buy a cabin, or possibly rent, in the Interlake region of MB and spend at least October hunting public lands and land I could scrounge up permission for. I'd do this annually as well as hunt land I have access to near my home. Pretty simple plan. Just me, boat and gear, and maybe my son or a friend for a portion of that month. Just your basic solo or small group style of scouting and hunting. Those plans are no longer possible. To me the least intrusive style of hunting has been regulated out of existence, yet outfitters gain greater control of the resource. I think the commercialization of hunting in key areas in both CA and the USA have wrecked hunting for those who wish to practice it on their own on a small scale and the average joes like me are not the problem, yet we are restricted. Pisses me off.
 
Eric Patterson said:
RM

Just so you know the new laws by MB and now SA derailed my post-retirement hunting plans. I intended to buy a cabin, or possibly rent, in the Interlake region of MB and spend at least October hunting public lands and land I could scrounge up permission for. I'd do this annually as well as hunt land I have access to near my home. Pretty simple plan. Just me, boat and gear, and maybe my son or a friend for a portion of that month. Just your basic solo or small group style of scouting and hunting. Those plans are no longer possible. To me the least intrusive style of hunting has been regulated out of existence, yet outfitters gain greater control of the resource. I think the commercialization of hunting in key areas in both CA and the USA have wrecked hunting for those who wish to practice it on their own on a small scale and the average joes like me are not the problem, yet we are restricted. Pisses me off.
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Eric,
You are not alone. The same thing happened in North Dakota. We have family residing in Minnesota and North Dakota. Our annual pheasant hunting trips were among the best and most memorable of all my hunts. As Jeff Readon alluded to in his post regarding Maine river fishing, an increasing population is pursuing a dismishing resource. First were the complaints that out of state hunters were ruining hunting for resident hunters. The state then limited our hunting season to two five day periods.Then commercialized hunting moved in. Now resident and nonresident hunters scarcely have a place to hunt unless they go through an outfitter. The one positive difference is that in Canada, guides cannot lease up a resource or pay farmers to hunt the land.
Having said all that, honestly, how much wild game do we need in our freezer? Last year we limited out on every species we hunted: turkey, grouse, pheasant, duck and deer. Most years we have had plenty and it is rare to purchase store bought meat, with the exception of specialty items for the bbq pit. My dog knows nothing about possession limits so the last three weeks of the season we hunted without ever squeezing the trigger. We still had a blast!

RM
 
RM Anderson said:
The one positive difference is that in Canada, guides cannot lease up a resource or pay farmers to hunt the land.
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RM Anderson said:
Having said all that, honestly, how much wild game do we need in our freezer?

RM
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I think that depends on the province. I know outfitters can lease private land in MB. Probably others too. I think Alberta may not allow it. I'd have to research it.

If I was able to execute my plan, I can assure you my possession would be in compliance with the law. That is more than can be said for some outfitters and their clients.
 
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