Shooting School

RM Anderson said:
Everyone has been most helpful and I don't want to give the impression that I am ignoring the importance of gun fit. I have experimented with the spacers that affect drop at comb which came with the shotgun. Some people suggest floating the target but for field shooting I like the shotgun to hit maybe 60/40, basically paint of aim. I'm not sure adding variables during the learning process would be helpful. Before I really got into shotguns and bird hunting, I was an avid handgun hunter. The learning curve, as with shotgunning, is quite steep and the secret is to be consistent with your grip. At some point in the hopefully not to distant future I hope to be consistent enough with my gun mount and will address these areas of concern. Honestly as much as I would like to blame the gun on my off days, I know in my heart it is me. One thing that I have failed to mention is that several years ago I was in an auto accident and suffered a tramatic brain injury. So basically I am in the process of rerouting information to make things happen in a positive way. That is my biggest reason for not messing with the gun fit too much. On a more positive note, my wife and I have always wanted to hunt Rio turkeys in Texas so I am looking at booking a one on one with the Ash Shooting School. RM
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IF your getting 60/40 where your aiming. Then no more cast/drop adjustments are needed.

Me personally I prefer 50/50 when hunting and 60/40 when doing off season clay shooting. On my Berettas 60/40 will float the clay right above the brass bed.

Not sure what kind of bead setup you have on your gun. But for me anything other then a small brass bead. And the bead draws my attention and I start measuring lead and start missing clays.

Food for thought.
 
RM Anderson said:
Everyone has been most helpful and I don't want to give the impression that I am ignoring the importance of gun fit. I have experimented with the spacers that affect drop at comb which came with the shotgun. Some people suggest floating the target but for field shooting I like the shotgun to hit maybe 60/40, basically paint of aim. I'm not sure adding variables during the learning process would be helpful. Before I really got into shotguns and bird hunting, I was an avid handgun hunter. The learning curve, as with shotgunning, is quite steep and the secret is to be consistent with your grip. At some point in the hopefully not to distant future I hope to be consistent enough with my gun mount and will address these areas of concern. Honestly as much as I would like to blame the gun on my off days, I know in my heart it is me. One thing that I have failed to mention is that several years ago I was in an auto accident and suffered a tramatic brain injury. So basically I am in the process of rerouting information to make things happen in a positive way. That is my biggest reason for not messing with the gun fit too much. On a more positive note, my wife and I have always wanted to hunt Rio turkeys in Texas so I am looking at booking a one on one with the Ash Shooting School. RM
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You're not giving that impression. In my opinion, it's a bit of a chicken/egg situation. I do think most fitters want you to have a consistent mount before fitting... but a consistent mount with an ill-fitting gun will have to change with a well-fit gun.

Despite my recommendations, I haven't been professionally fitted. But having now discovered the benefit (for me) of a longer LOP and the change in effective drop/cheek position that created for me, as well as my eye dominance issue, I plan to in the next year or so. I don't have anyone good in close proximity to me, so will have to make a trip. But I want to have my wife fitted even more than myself (shotguns are not well-designed for women), so will plan a trip around it at some point.

As your gun seems to shoot where you point it, you're having good success, and you're not reporting recoil-related symptoms, I'd guess your gun fits you reasonably well. Consistency may come with a few thousand more rounds. In fact, I'd bet it will, even if a few tweaks could be made for better fit.
 
Some people suggest floating the target but for field shooting I like the shotgun to hit maybe 60/40, basically paint of aim.
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I'm with you 100% on that. No way I'm compensating for a barrel that shoots other than where I point it.

Sounds like you have a plan. Maybe the fine tune can wait. In any event, there's an old adage at one time widely recognized in competitive shooting....."Beware the man with one gun". I am not that guy, but accept the wisdom.
 
Purists may want to look away because what I am about to do will surely 😥 disappoint you! The past three years have been encouraging as far as progress that has been made in terms of hitting moving targets. Nevertheless I am an impatient fellow and I don't know how many more seasons the good Lord will give me to improve. Several years ago I read about a shotgun sight that would allow you to shoot with both eyes open, even those with cross dominant eye issues. Enter the Aimpoint Acro S2. Interestingly, the device does not change the way you shoot but is more of an unconscious reference on close birds while giving more precise reference on distant birds. Twenty five years ago handgunners were saying the same thing about optics as we are hearing today concerning shotguns. Paradigm change perhaps? RM
 
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RM Anderson said:
Purists may want to look away because what I am about to do will surely 😥 disappoint you! The past three years have been encouraging as far as progress that has been made in terms of hitting moving targets. Nevertheless I am an impatient fellow and I don't know how many more seasons the good Lord will give me to improve. Several years ago I read about a shotgun sight that would allow you to shoot with both eyes open, even those with cross dominant eye issues. Enter the Aimpoint Acro S2. Interestingly, the device does not change the way you shoot but is more of an unconscious reference on close birds while giving more precise reference on distant birds. My apologies, RM
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There is a much better shotgun red dot sight out now made by vortex.

I have one and use it often.
 
Clinton John said:
I have one and use it often.
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Very encouraging; I'm intrigued. What was your reason for trying one in the first place? It's funny because I won't hesitate to put one on a turkey gun or pistol but for some reason I felt like I should just pull my boot straps up and learn to wingshoot. RM
 
RM Anderson said:
Very encouraging; I'm intrigued. What was your reason for trying one in the first place? It's funny because I won't hesitate to put one on a turkey gun or pistol but for some reason I felt like I should just pull my boot straps up and learn to wingshoot. RM
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Turkey hunting mostly. But I have used it to shoot some clays and seen no reason why I couldn't use it too kill waterfowl.

My clay scores only dropped slightly for the first two or three times I used it. Then I got the swing of it and was right back too hitting my normal percentage of clays.

Im going to give it a try on ducks this year.
 
Clinton John said:
There is a much better shotgun red dot sight out now made by vortex.

I have one and use it often.
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Clinton, Since you are reviewing the Vortex sight for duck hunting this fall, I ordered the Acro S2 sight from Aimpoint to try something different. If I decide that I don't like it I can always use it for turkey! RM
 
RM Anderson said:
Clinton, Since you are reviewing the Vortex sight for duck hunting this fall, I ordered the Acro S2 sight from Aimpoint to try something different. If I decide that I don't like it I can always use it for turkey! RM
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I checked out the aimpoint sight as well.

But it didn't really fit my wants/needs. Not that it is/was are will be a bad sight. Just not well fitting to my needs.

I like a small simple dot, as well as a lower profile sight housing. That and I trust vortex's lifetime warranty policy.

So that's what I went for.

I tried to match up my wants to what I have in a red dot sight on one of my hunting rifles. Small, low profile and with a simple small (2 to 3 moa dot size) dot, preferably in red color because my eye doesn't seem to be drawn to red, but green grabs my attention.

Wanted too have as realistic as possible chance that my minds eye wouldn't see the dot but not cause me to track the dot, instead of the bird. Took some shells too get use to it, but I seem to have adjusted well to it and am hitting my normal amount of clays.

We will see, teal season will soon be here.
 
Clinton John said:
We will see, teal season will soon be here.
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Hitting teal will be the acid test. If you are able to hit those speed demons with an optic I would dare say that you could hit anything. Like you, I don't anticipate any difficulties using this sight. Supposedly Aimpoint recommends the swing through system so whether you blot out the bird with the barrel or your green dot, I don't see an appreciable difference.To quote a reviewer of the Aimpoint, "Your eyes become quite blasé about things it sees all the time." No pun intended, but we shall see.
RM
 
RM Anderson said:
Hitting teal will be the acid test. If you are able to hit those speed demons with an optic I would dare say that you could hit anything. Like you, I don't anticipate any difficulties using this sight. Supposedly Aimpoint recommends the swing through system so whether you blot out the bird with the barrel or your green dot, I don't see an appreciable difference.To quote a reviewer of the Aimpoint, "Your eyes become quite blasé about things it sees all the time." No pun intended, but we shall see.
RM
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Couple of points to note.

I Did do some experiments with it. My dad can't hit the broadside of a barn half the time with a shotgun. Mostly because he refuses to fit the gun to himself. So I put it on his gun and we sighted it in at 30 yards to be poi/poa correct. He was able to hit 21 out of 25 clays on his first go with it. He is typically like a 10 to 14 out of 25 shooter.

So it would appear that if sighted in properly. It can help with a ill fitted gun.

Once sighted in. No matter if the gun isn't shouldered good, it will hit wherever the dot is at.

This is something I have noticed with the red dot on my rifle, no matter how quickly and sloppy I get the gun shouldered. It will hit where the dot is at.

On my a300 ultima. Once I sighted it in to the guns poi. The red dot and the shotguns bead. Were basically over lapping. But my gun is fitted for me.

One thing is for sure. If it causes me issues on live flying birds. It's a simple and quick process to get it off the gun and continue hunting.
 
Clinton John said:
Couple of points to note.

I Did do some experiments with it. My dad can't hit the broadside of a barn half the time with a shotgun. Mostly because he refuses to fit the gun to himself. So I put it on his gun and we sighted it in at 30 yards to be poi/poa correct. He was able to hit 21 out of 25 clays on his first go with it. He is typically like a 10 to 14 out of 25 shooter.

So it would appear that if sighted in properly. It can help with a ill fitted gun.

Once sighted in. No matter if the gun isn't shouldered good, it will hit wherever the dot is at.

This is something I have noticed with the red dot on my rifle, no matter how quickly and sloppy I get the gun shouldered. It will hit where the dot is at.

On my a300 ultima. Once I sighted it in to the guns poi. The red dot and the shotguns bead. Were basically over lapping. But my gun is fitted for me.

One thing is for sure. If it causes me issues on live flying birds. It's a simple and quick process to get it off the gun and continue hunting.
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Quite interesting. The one thing I've noticed is that 99% of the people on the forums I've read who are against a red/green dot of any kind on a shotgun have never tried one. It seems to be catching on to some degree in Europe. New shooters who have no preconceived notions love them. Most notably, shotgun manufacturers have taken notice and many are now drilling and tapping relievers. The Vortex you purchased looks like a great choice. The reason why I went with Aimpoint was the optics forward positioning which I am quite familiar with as a handgun hunter.
RM
 
Looks like my little experiment is going to have to wait until next year. The Aimpoint S2 is on backorder until early 2026. Apparently they are much more popular across the pond. I know Optics Planet and a couple of other retailers have them in stock but I really wanted to use Scheels points instead of hard earned cash in case it wasn't a good fit. Hopefully Clinton can keep us posted on his experiences with dot sights. RM
 
I'm going to have to watch some videos and read some literature on these devices. I'm sure they accomplish the goal of improving shot percentages, but seem to be the exact opposite of instinctive/intuitive shooting and little more than yet another device to overcome an issue of gun-fit (or human disability). As it seems your gun fits reasonably well and you're able to shoot well (at least at times), I have a hard time conceiving of how such would benefit you more than just time shooting. To reiterate, I'm saying all that without studying the product, yet, so stand to be proven wrong.
 
Yes, I am kind of disappointed that I will not be able to use it this year. Agree that it would compensate for an ill fitting gun or eye dominance issues. My decision to purchase was probably a bit of knee jerk reaction to not knowing exactly where my shot is going. With out a shooting instructor looking over my shoulder, it is anyone's guess. For that reason, I look at it as a way to shoot a fitted gun and eliminate the possibility of eye dominance issues while knowing exactly where my shot cloud is hitting. An additional advantage is being able to change point of impact. Many guns don't shoot where she should.
It is certainly not for everyone but I figured that I am a perfect candidate as I have alot of experience from shooting handguns with the Eotech holosight. A fitted gun goes right out the window anyway with a heavy coat or face mask for late season pheasant or duck hunting. Hell, twenty years ago they said the same thing about dots on handguns. RM
 
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Over the long weekend my fob for my wireless remote delay battery died. Fortunately I still had my foot petal release with 100 ft cord. Not surprisingly I found myself behind all my targets trying to catch up. Thought it would be an excellent time to really learn the Swing Through method advocated by many experts and our own Henry Hawthorne. Long story short, I really liked it and will spend the remainder of the season practicing this method. Definitely see how it will be an advantage when birds get the jump on you in the field. RM
 
As an aside, I was wrong about George Digweed. For many years I was under the impression that he was a sustained lead shooter. Below is an article in his own words where he sets it straight. Turns out that he is a swing through shooter on over 90% of his shots. RM

www.claytargetnation-digital.com

Clay Target Nation August 2024: WHY I SHOOT SWING-THROUGH

The King of Clays explains why he really does use the swing-through technique almost exclusively. Ever since I’ve started shooting clay targets, I’ve shot …
www.claytargetnation-digital.com www.claytargetnation-digital.com
 
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