Silver Lab?

Guys, I bumped into a friend of mine yesterday who had his dog with him. It looked to me like a cross between a lab and a visula(sp?). Lab head and body but kind of a grizzled looking coat. He said it ws a silver lab. Anybody ever heard of a silver lab?
 
Ed, I've been involved in some "spirited discussions" over Labs and what is acceptable in terms of colors and so forth. Technically, there is no such animal as recognized by the AKC in their breed standards. There are only three recognized colors, Yellow, Black, and Chocolate. "Silver Labs" seem to have sprung from a genetic anomaly in Chocolates, and the dogs are normally registered as Chocolates. Typically they have other disqualifying faults relative to the AKC breed standards, such as off color eyes, usually yellow, or silvery yellow.

With respect to the practical working dog, I have a friend who owned one. He seemed happy with the dog's working ability, but had to put the dog down at only 4 years of age due to lymphoma. Whether the cancer was an issue related to the genetic faults that brought on the other visible characteristics of the dog I don't know, but have wondered...
 
Thanks for the reply. The dog did have light yellow eyes. I have had labs for over 30 years and am familar with the "approved" colors. With all the designer dog breeds out there(labradoodles, etc.) I thought maybe this was another one.
 
The other lab color that is occasionally marketed but not approved by the AKC is brindle. I have a neighbor with one and the dog is a house pet. Back when I used to show a lab I heard rumors of genetic issues and illness. I can't say I can verify this as the neighbors dog is getting old without event.
 
It is hard to believe that some do pay good money for the doodles, mini labs and such I just dont get it. The silver
thing is new to me also I had read that some try and register them as Chocolate duno. I have a couple I know that
have 2 doodles paid good money for them cause they DONT shed they were told.. NOT
 
Silver lab = B.S.! Something fishy going on with breeders at some point. One more example of people f-ing around and lieing to akc with a breed for money. And the idiots that purchase them just promote more to do it. Just buy a wiemer if you want a silver/pewter blueish dog. IDIOTS! I don't even want start about the labra-doodles and everyother DESIGNER MUTT that idiots buy. I love hearing the they don't shed , really there covered in fur!

just venting,
Gene
 
There is also a "Fox Red" lab which is registered as a yellow. I've been looking into breeders which mostly seem to be out west. They are a rust color and look really good. When I get done doing my homework on this color I will be getting one (as long as everything checks out health wise)
 
There is also a "Fox Red" lab which is registered as a yellow. I've been looking into breeders which mostly seem to be out west. They are a rust color and look really good. When I get done doing my homework on this color I will be getting one (as long as everything checks out health wise)

Joe, from the AKC Breed Standard regarding color:

Color
The Labrador Retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate. Any other color or a combination of colors is a disqualification. A small white spot on the chest is permissible, but not desirable. White hairs from aging or scarring are not to be misinterpreted as brindling. Black--Blacks are all black. A black with brindle markings or a black with tan markings is a disqualification. Yellow--Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog. Chocolate--Chocolates can vary in shade from light to dark chocolate. Chocolate with brindle or tan markings is a disqualification.


My dog came from a Fox Red sire and a lighter yellow dam. He actually has characteristics of both in his coat:

Kane7.jpg


At work on geese:

Kane1.JPG


Kane2.JPG


Kane3.JPG


And a couple of his offspring who just turned 5 weeks old...

Puppies6.JPG


Puppies7.JPG

 
tongue in cheek reply:
I think silver would be a great color for layout hunters. I want one for that purpose.

Sincere response:
Black is the dominant gene . . . everything else is a mutation/submissive gene and the yellow gene is not even naturally occurring - it was bred in for one purpose - to have yellow labs, much the same as the silver is being done now. It's just that the yellow was bred in about a hundred years ago. Chocolate is a naturally occurring gene color, it's just that in the old days they were culled out as soon as they were born.

Obviously yellows have come along just fine over the decades and chocolates are starting to hit their stride as well.

As for me, I'm with Henry Ford and his model Ts. I'll take any color they have . . . as long as its black. However, it's just the color I like. I make no claims that my dog is better than anyone else's based on coat color . . . but she probably IS better ! haha

NR
 
Nick, I specifically wanted a Yellow so he would blend in when hunting corn stubble...which Kane does very well. Flooded timber/beaver marsh? Not so much...lol.
 
The Labrador Retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate. Any other color or a combination of colors is a disqualification. A small white spot on the chest is permissible, but not desirable. White hairs from aging or scarring are not to be misinterpreted as brindling. Black--Blacks are all black. A black with brindle markings or a black with tan markings is a disqualification. Yellow--Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog. Chocolate--Chocolates can vary in shade from light to dark chocolate. Chocolate with brindle or tan markings is a disqualification.


DQ'ed from what? Being allowed to run around in circles in the ring at Westminster accompanied by some fat lady....all in order to get the meaningless initials CH in front of the name on your papers? (meaningless to hunters that is) Hehehe...

...but I do like my labs black.
 
Wholeheartedly concur. The best upland dog I ever hunted with had so many different breeds in him that we really didn't know what he was. But he froze up on point like a 2x4 and lived to retrieve anything, I would shoot arrows so he could chase them. The AKC probably wouldn't even acknowledge him as a dog, good thing I don't give the AKC any money for my dogs.

Ron
 
The problem here though is that people are selling a mix breed as a full blood lab and calling it a silver lab. I have no problems with a hunter liking a great hunting dog regardless of what is in it. Yellow lab with a red tint. Great! Black or Brown. Great! Lab with some Weimaraner or anything else mixed in it. Great! Just don't tell someone they are buying a "special" or "rare" Lab. That is not so Great!

Then again I hunt a brown dog and we don't care what color those curly coat brown dogs actually are.
 
Sorry, you got me on a bad day. My boss (our president,) hired someone I don't agree with without the Senates say so (not that he wouldn't of been approved.)

I agree that false marketing is a crummy thing to do, but at some point people need to take responsibility for their own actions INCLUDING purchases. If they fall in love with a lab pup, and are willing to sink the coin into the purchase without calling someone at the AKC or at least another breeder of labs to find out if it is a wise purchase, then they blew it and (should) have to live with the consequences. I am tired of this country raising it's citizens on life support without instilling the responsibility and independence that people who served before me demonstrated while dying for my home.

Promise, happens very rarely, today has just brought me one step closer to not reenlisting because I feel this place is rapidly becoming a place I'm not sure I want to defend.

Ron
 
Yeah there is a lot of money involved in buying and raising a dog and getting one from a questionable bloodline doesn't help matters. Many of the breeds were developed by people taking much more care in the quality of the job performed then in the amount of money they can make quickly. Some silver lab pictures I've seen look more like a weimaraner then a lab.

Knowing the breeding is true is bigger then any one specific dog. If this kind of thing happened in the cattle industry, say a new pink angus showed up that looked a lot like a charolais x red angus cross, it wouldn't be cool just because girls liked the color better. It would likely be done to cash in on the angus name more then to make quality beef. The calf size, weight gain and cold tolerance would all be effected too. There is no way a lab crossed with a european shorthaired pointing dog isn't changed. At least the red setter guys did it with full disclosure when they crossed, and they used a much closer related dog.

I once knew someone with a basset shepherd cross. While a low to the ground police dog might come in handy without a long bloodline to prove it was just a slow drool producers. It was a pretty cool dog. Mutts ain't bad, selling mutts as something special is bad.

Tim
 
Thanks Joe, for the compliments on Kane! I get a lot of compliments on him, both for his appearance and his performance in the field. I wish this discussion had occured a few months ago; a good friend of mine had a litter of pups, and a couple of the males were colored like Kane's dark points all over. Good lookin rascals...

I'll send you some info via PM on my dog's sire. They are a fullblown breeding/training outfit and have pups available pretty regularly.
 
Don't get me wrong; there's a whole lot to be said for the right initials being in the bloodline of any pup you're considering. As long as those initials read AFC, CFC, NAFC, CNFC, HRC, GRHRC, MH, etc.....

My comment was directed toward the quote from the breed standard book. That statement merely pertains to factors which would eliminate a dog from participating or placing in AKC sanctioned SHOW events, where form and conformation to a breed standard for looks is being judged and function is not even considered. These shows move a dog toward the title of CH.

Some folks out looking at lab pups from show stock get fooled by the designation CH all over the pedigree, and may be led to believe that they are getting some sort of CHampion hunting dog....doesn't mean a thing when applied to what we want our dogs to do. Means the parents of your dog look good. Nothing more.

Labs responsibly bred from field stock are coming from actively working dogs selectively bred to pass on the traits they have displayed in the field: eysight, memory, exceptional marking ability, a good nose, disposition, sound body structure that allows them to keep going after long hours in harsh conditions, etc, etc. The letter titles designating field champion titles show that these dogs have demonstrated the things we want in field trials or hunt tests that mimic hunting situations. That had to take some dedication to training them.

Of course there are probably lots of great dogs without titles who can do the work (I believe that's one of the reasons the HRC movement started - but now even though you can compete and title a dog, they have requirements that protect ethical, responsible breeding and prevent bogus use of those titles). But I feel the best bet for getting a pup is going to be finding solid field stock, and more than likely that means finding trustworthy breeder/trainers (amateur or pro) who are hunting as well as field trialing.

One thing we all need to realize is that having a good retriever never simply involves paying for the pup with all the credentials or finding one from parents who you have seen do the work --and then just adding water. It's like someone on the forum is fond of saying: "You get out of a dog what you put into a dog." The proper field breeding just insures that the potential is there to work with. There's a guy who lives near me who is an avid fan of the Retriever Field Trial News. For a while, every year or so, I'd see him with a new pup, and hear the story about how the last one just never worked out. Problem was, he never did enough with the dogs. Occasionally, he'd accept the offer to come along to train with us, and was disappointed when his dog couldn't begin to do what the dogs of others in our training group were doing.

I'll be the first to agree that backyard breeders who misrepresent what they're selling you are never O.K. But really didn't get the impression from the original post that the guy with the silver lab was "selling" anything. Just classifying his dog's odd coloration for whatever reason.
 
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I agree with you completely Bob. The yellow I had was from conformation stock. She had her CH and training her to hunt did not come without challenges. She did become a good hunter with one serious flaw. In the presence of other dogs she let them do the work. She did not have the drive that dogs bred from hunting stock have. When it was just us in the field she was great.

She was especially good for a free dog. Free is good!
 
Joe Hyatt if looking for a red lab ck out the Kellog kennles in SD. They bread & sold pointing labs from bout the 30's. My lab came from a buddy that has 2 from the kellog kennles, he's a pointing fool & a better retrever than I can train for. Kellog has a web site, but doesn't advertise much, dogs sell by word of mouth. I visited him in the 90's & he had several labs that were as red as any irish setter! first red ones I'd ever seen. hope this helps
Dennis
 
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