Smallest natural retriever?

Ok eddie, I am going to chime in, first and foremost, the level at which most dog training is done with an ecollar, would be safe albeit uncomfortable around a persons neck. It is not SHOCKING them to their knees, in fact if the dog is vocalizes in most cases, its to hot. Two, have you ever watched momma put a pup in their place. Its not a pleasant thing to watch, I have seen puppies full of scars, knots, you name it. Its what in nature occurs on a regular basis to get through to dogs. I had animal control at my house on two seperate occasions when my male was a pup. He is head strong and dominant. I did nothing more than what momma would do, grab by the tuff of the neck and put on his back. My neighbors thought this as cruel, animal control understood what I was doing and let it go. They aren't people, and can't be treated/trained as such. No one could ever walk in my house and think my two don't have a bond with me, or they don't think the world of me just as I do them.

My dogs go outside everyday with a collar on, Why? Because they are my kids and I think of their SAFTEY, I don't have a fence and one rabbit or deer and they could be hit by a car. They both are well trained, but all it takes is one time of not listening.

Seek to understand before forming an opinion, and you can still be against them but first understand how they are used and why.
 
Bills
Ok mate I can see inrespect where you are coming from and I think our two country,s are miles apart when it comes down to using the tools to train a gundog. I dont know of any kennels in the in the uk or trainers that would use these tools. Our trainers train on the systems that some of our forfathers did, and it is still good way, the British can trace our Lab strains back to the back end of the 18th century from when they came over from Canada
Thats why in my view again is a posibilty of why our dogs are so carm because they have kept the strain clean and no crossing of the breed.
I still maintain I hate collers and would never put one on a dog at any time and I not just taking about a e-coller Im talking about any form of a coller,
I if I need to stop my dogs I use a whisle or a hand signal and they will stop on a dime.

Take care and God Bless.
Eddie and Amber
Its all about Building that Bond.
 
Hey Kirk
You keep out of this and stop churping in it not your argument.
 
Eddie - I have to give you credit for stating your opinion based upon your experience. I happen to agree with you based upon my experience which includes e collar conditioning and training with a pro's supervision. The collar can be very effective but often will make a dog more hyper and sometimes worse if the trainer is having a bad day.
After three good dogs over a 30 year period, I have decided not to use it ever again and hope to get a pup someday that has the right stuff and then spend the 18 months doing the training a different way. My dogs were great companions and made many solid retrieves but I regret having to use that much force.

It's my opinion that e collars and a lot of the force training used here in the US has developed because our breeding has not always been proper. Also we are impatient, I know I am anyway. I am told that if a dog over on your side is hard mouthed or has some other bad trait that you simply do not breed the dog..........if that's true, it would go a long way toward insuring dogs with the right stuff........calm, obedient, soft mouthed natural retrievers.......and I hope some day to own one.
Not to say that there are not some very good dogs here.......just ask Al Hansen or others on our forum...........but the breed has been bred to tears in the US and many of the litters are back yard deals that make people a lot of money. On any given Sunday, in every major city, there are lots of adds for lab pups.

One thing is real obvious reading all of these posts. Our forum members value retrievers and have strong opinions and some very good dogs from what I can see. I can tell you this - hunting without one is not half the fun !

sarge
 
Dick
Thanks mate I will anwser all your questions in a pm.

Take care and God Bless
Eddie and Amber
Its all about Building that Bond.
 
Eddie,

That's my whole point. You are commenting on something you know nothing about. You admitted you don't use any type of collar to train. I don't expect your view to change. I just think it is ignorant to comment on something you know nothing about.

Tom
Click to expand...

Guys, Ever tried homosexuality??? Think you'd like it? I bet you formulated an opinion without even trying it...you may even be morally opposed to such things...just saying.

Seriously though, some of you dog guys (on both sides of the pond) are a bit too serious...take a breath. Most of you are set in your ways because you have your ways that work best for you with your dogs in your given hunting/field trial conditions. Nothing wrong with that...but not alot of change is going to come out of these arguements.

Dick, Glad to see someone thinking outside the box...

Best
Chuck

View attachment Free-Thinking-Cat-C_jpg_630x1200_upscale_q85.jpg
 
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Chuck - P R I C E L E S S !!!!!!!!!!!!

Am going to float my new (to me) ride today and then post some pics but it's still too warm here in MA to get much gunning in. All we need is a week of cold weather to get the ducks out of the woods and out on the marsh !

sarge
 
Bob
My laptop is still not up to scatch yet mate and Im still having a few issues with it but when I can get it up to scatch I will be viewing them for sure.
Thanks for posting them mate.

Take care and God Bless
Eddie and Amber
Its all about Building that Bond.
 
Eddie,

That's my whole point. You are commenting on something you know nothing about. You admitted you don't use any type of collar to train. I don't expect your view to change. I just think it is ignorant to comment on something you know nothing about.

Tom
Click to expand...

Guys, Ever tried homosexuality??? Think you'd like it? I bet you formulated an opinion without even trying it...you may even be morally opposed to such things...just saying.

Chuck,

Just because I train with an e collar doesn't mean I take it to the bedroom!!!!

Tom

PS Let me know if you need some help with the cat, the e collar can help with that too!
Click to expand...
 
Tom

Cats are too stubborn for e-collars...there is a expression, you don't own a cat, the cat owns you. (BTW, not my cat, just hijacked the pic from the net to interject some humor)

Best
Chuck

[/quote]

Andy,

I hope you can find the answer to your question amongst the wreckage of this train wreck. Looked like some pretty sound advise from those who checked their attitudes at the door.

Best
Chuck
 

Andy,

I hope you can find the answer to your question amongst the wreckage of this train wreck. Looked like some pretty sound advise from those who checked their attitudes at the door.

Best
Chuck[/QUOTE]

I was just wondering the same thing. But, it seems there are many good options out there. It will come down to finding a good breeder which I can visit before hand. This basically puts my in Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana.
 
as far the homosexaulity thing, I can tell you I am a praticing lesbian and proud of it. I keep pratcing till I get it right.

andy i have a dear friend that is the hrc field rep for that area, and lives in montana now. huntswlabs@live.com is her email, ms margo ellis. Shoot her an email for some potiental contacts in your area. travis
 
as far the homosexaulity thing, I can tell you I am a praticing lesbian and proud of it. I keep pratcing till I get it right.

andy i have a dear friend that is the hrc field rep for that area
Click to expand...


Practice??? LOL
 
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