Sneakboat Dilemma

[william gaynor]

check out the marsh boat in the classified section

 

[Anthony Babich]

Noah if you like gunning out of a classic barnegat if you could find one my fiberglass 12' would be great
best Bill

That looks awesome, what brand is that?

 

[Noah Shaver]

Sorry for no updates on this fellas, and thank you for all of the posts on this thread.

I never did end up purchasing a boat. I'm still building our house so that has been where all of the funds have been diverted.

What I "decided" on was to save up my money as possible and eventually purchase a new 4 rivers Duck Boss 13 with flapper boards. It will likely be next summer before this purchase is made.

I explored the options of 2 BBSB hulls thoroughly and did come across some great options for double decker trailers or double wide jetski trailers. We drive from NC to NJ to hunt, and the double wide jetski trailer isn't legal technically with the width. Looked like most guys had to go beyond legal width to get two of them on the trailer. Didn't want to be taking it through toll booths or dealing with NJ troopers. Came across an awesome double decker trailer for sale but I wasn't sure I trusted it to make the long trips and be reliable in the salt/cold conditions. So that's how I came full circle back to wanting just one boat big enough to hunt 2 guys.

I still keep my eye out on Facebook marketplace and it does appear that the price of used rigs has decreased some. I will have my "perfect rig" it just may be a little while

 

[William Mills]

Great info, thank you William!

Just a heads up the tuckerton decoy show is this coming weekend and there are usually a bunch of boats on display and some vendors there selling boats. A great opportunity to see them in person and talk to people that own those boats

 

[Steve Sanford]

Good morning all,

New member here, brand new to the sneakboat world. I have joined some Facebook groups and talked to a couple guys already that I believe may be members here. My most sincere thanks to all that have helped me so far!

A friend and myself are in the market for a sneakboat, or possibly two. We are hunting the salt marsh of coastal NJ and our current equipment (jon boat and layout blinds) just isn't cutting it. We spend more time fighting the conditions than hunting.

I'd like to get some insight on one larger sneak boat vs. two. A boat like the South Bay duck boat seems perfect for the conditions we hunt, short coastal grasses and shallow water, but I'm not sure that it would house both of us while hunting. We are both 200-225 pound guys, and I have a great dog that I love having tag along.

I know a boat such as the TDB classic would fit both of us and the dog, but I think it would stick out like a sore thumb with its tall profile in the short grasses. We are mainly hunting the outgoing tide in the afternoons, so when we set up the water is typically pretty high.

Is there such a boat that could hunt both of us and hide well, or should we look at getting Two BBSB style boats? We travel a good ways to hunt so we would need to have some sort of double decker trailer if that were the case so we could take one truck.

Thanks in advance,
Noah

Noah~

Great thread! Lots of good advice here. First question - as I see it - is: How do you want to hide the 2-gunners+dog? As a Great South Bay gunner, I always preferred the traditional laying on back/sitting up to shoot mode - to be able to hide in or near saltmarsh. Also, I want a vessel that is seaworthy, truly shallow draft (~ 3 inches) and light enough to manhandle when the tide runs out.

I built my second gunning boat as a 2-man "sneakbox" because I wanted to take others along who did not have their own vessel. The 2 Sneakboxes for 2 gunners is in many ways ideal - but usually requires 2 boats, 2 trailers, 2 outboards, 2 tow vehicles.

I have not yet scanned the few photos I have of the build. I took an old Herters 'glass cartopper - cut off the transom, split the stem, and widened the hull to 5'2" or so. The design had 2 gunners laying next to each other, facing the bow. We never used a dog but one could certainly find ample room at our feet. We covered the forward half of the cockpit with a canvas lap cover - and such could be "ported" to allow for a dog to enjoy the hunt and earn his keep.

Here is my Dad. He was in his 60s in this photo - and sat up when "hiding" - so could could enjoy his coffee and his cigarette throughout the hunt. I recall him folding a nice high Mallard drake over his right shoulder on this afternoon hunt. When I hunted it by myself, I always lay all the way down with only my head and shoulders on the padded backrest.



Here she is with 2 other friends - after I added the "cowl" to hide their heads. None of us had discovered face masks back then.



She drew the requisite 3 or 4-inches. One mistake I made in building her, though, was molding 2 runners/strakes on her bottom. They helped when launching with wooden beach rollers and for dragging over ice, but....they absolutely grabbed the bottom when the tide ran out. My next vessel was smooth-bottomed.



She was a planing hull and my 15-horse Johnson was plenty.



Having said all that, I have gunned out of and customized numerous boats that meet most of these criteria. All shoot 2 gunners over the side, however. I am especially impressed with the Duck Invader 13 in this regard (well-built vessel all around). I will be customizing an Arthur Armstrong Blackjack soon - so it can be hunted either 1-man - over the stern - or 2-man - over the side.

I have also gunned sitting up seats in some boats - with great success. This is my sneakbox RED-LEG - but with the removable blind I built so I could bring a partner. Among other things, it reinforces Josh's idea that any vessel needs to be fully thatched to fool most saltmarsh puddle ducks.


Hope this helps - and best of luck in your quest for the Perfect Gunning Vessel!

SJS

 

[Eric Patterson]

Steve, what a wonderful photo-essay. Somehow you had the foresight to capture those hunts on film. Who knew all these years later they'd be educational. Great stuff.

 

[Noah Shaver]

Steve, those pictures are amazing, I greatly appreciate you sharing with us. I hadn't really even considered gunning over the bow. I'm not sure I am handy enough to trust myself to cut a boat down the center and "add on," but I have a deep respect for those that are. Definitely something else to consider! Thanks again sir.

 

[JOHNMULCAHY]

I live an hunt NJ coastal a rivers I run sneak boxes from old to newer (cedar,glass) an also run big Jon boats to a duck wrangler 15 I absolutely love the wrangler 15 hated my duck boss 13 was tight to me

 

[zzanolini]

I think it depends on how far you have to travel and if you are willing to paddle and how comfortable you want to be. Two boats is probably the best. I hunt out of a Hybrid duck boat that I paddle or motor depending on travel/cover height. My friend hunts out of a 10’ commercial layout maybe a “Mallard” or “Pintail” both stack on each other in a pickup bed.

 

[Noah Shaver]

Well folks, the sneakboat dilemma has been solved. I ran across a 14' TDB classic for a price that I could not pass up. I am going to pick it up this weekend and have sent a deposit to hold the boat. The boat needs some general TLC and one area of fiberglass repair. It will be a nice project and a good way to get into a boat that can get us into the salt marsh for a very low initial cost, which makes my wife very happy!

I have never been a fan of the TDB blind setup and how high it sticks up in the low grass of the salt marsh. The plan for this one is first to go through the hull and repair any necessary areas to retain it's structural integrity and get me through the season. Then I am going to build some flapper boards and install some 3/4" nylon strap material for brushing. Plan is to cut milk crates in half and mount boat seats on them to sit in the blind.

Pictures to follow soon!

 

[Capt Rich Geminski]

Noah, I hunt from a Southbay and it is perfect for one. I picked up a 13 whaler cheap and converted it to a duck boat, seats 3 side by side with a dog on the deck. It sits a little high for me [ hunt salt marsh also ], so I found the southbay and hunted two boats. Look around, there are deals out there. Some guy find old hulls in yacht yards for free, cut the deck off, lower height and put a new curved deck on. Great project for two guys, two boats. Take a ride to a bunch of yards, register home made.

 

[Rod VanZile]

Well folks, the sneakboat dilemma has been solved. I ran across a 14' TDB classic for a price that I could not pass up. I am going to pick it up this weekend and have sent a deposit to hold the boat. The boat needs some general TLC and one area of fiberglass repair. It will be a nice project and a good way to get into a boat that can get us into the salt marsh for a very low initial cost, which makes my wife very happy!

I have never been a fan of the TDB blind setup and how high it sticks up in the low grass of the salt marsh. The plan for this one is first to go through the hull and repair any necessary areas to retain it's structural integrity and get me through the season. Then I am going to build some flapper boards and install some 3/4" nylon strap material for brushing. Plan is to cut milk crates in half and mount boat seats on them to sit in the blind.

Pictures to follow soon!

Noah,
You will not regret your purchase. I have owned a TDB 14 since 1993. I know the east coast guys love the low profile look, but I think you can accomplish that with the flapper boards. Because of the lines of this boat they pretty much hide in plain sight in both the marsh and open water. The Clark brothers designed this boat to look like a muskrat house in the marsh. I assume they have muskrats in Maine. I suspect my hunting conditions in Indiana and Michigan are much different than yours on the east coast. Without the original blind the cockpit is very spacious. I won't sit on the floor of a boat to hunt anymore. I turn 69 next month and prefer the warmth of a codura blind with a little heat. Good luck with your new purchase.

RVZ

 

[Noah Shaver]

Thank you Rod, this is a 93 model as well. I am still a young buck so I don't mind sitting low

 

[Steve Sanford]

Well folks, the sneakboat dilemma has been solved. I ran across a 14' TDB classic for a price that I could not pass up. I am going to pick it up this weekend and have sent a deposit to hold the boat. The boat needs some general TLC and one area of fiberglass repair. It will be a nice project and a good way to get into a boat that can get us into the salt marsh for a very low initial cost, which makes my wife very happy!

I have never been a fan of the TDB blind setup and how high it sticks up in the low grass of the salt marsh. The plan for this one is first to go through the hull and repair any necessary areas to retain it's structural integrity and get me through the season. Then I am going to build some flapper boards and install some 3/4" nylon strap material for brushing. Plan is to cut milk crates in half and mount boat seats on them to sit in the blind.

Pictures to follow soon!

Noah~

Congratulations! I am sure you will be happy with this vessel. I have hunted from TDB-14s a few times and the TDB-17 scores of times.

Some ideas for you to ponder:

If you will be shooting over the side with 2 gunners, I recommend that the shooting side flapboard be an open framework thatched with bundles of thatch tied every 4 inches or so. I have al;ready shared some photos of the sit-up blind I made for my Sneakbox - to accommodate my Dad.



Here is the framework itself:



And the drawing cropped:



As you plan to sit low, you can make flappers that hinge right from your coaming (but see below). If I owned a TDB-14, I would just make just the uppers shown here - not the lower walls 'twixt the deck and the flappers. As I recall, the TDB cockpit is not a rectangle. So, you would need to fashion an adapter - as I did on this Wrangler - to create a rectangle. The squared-ff shape allows hinged flappers/frames to fold without binding.

BTW: This blind attached/detached very quickly to the original boat with no fasteners. The 4 pins fit into existing sockets - and a cleat in each corner held it tight to the coaming.



Here it is in gunning/hiding mode - but without any thatch, of course!



Here it is with both the side and the flappers turned down - as for handling stool.



On my own boat, I dedicated the port side as the gunning side. Thus, I always snugged the starboard side up against the bog. So, the shooting side had an open framework and the windward side was solid plywood - to keep out both wind and light. Gunners looked through - not over - the shooting frame whilst birds were approaching. (In fact, we often left the shooting side down until we detected birds - then slowly raised it to hide)



On this vessel, I made it reversible - so shooting could be directed either port or starboard. I used rigid plastic sheets (1/8-inch thickness) on this rig - but have used canvas on others. (I was having sewing machine problems at the time.....)



The weather panels/cloths are held in place with Common sense fassteners - so they can be quickly switched from side to side as needed.



For webbing/strapping I recommend polypropylene and not nylon. I have used 1-inch - but have not tried 3/4. I use 1-inch s/s fender washers every 12 inches or so. Hay is lashed on with sisal twine - a square knot on each.



Finally, the other feature I would change if I had a TDB would be access to the forward decoy storage. Too tough to kneel down and peer up into there - and tiresome to put decoys in and out. I would consider access through the foredeck - with either a generous solid hatch or canvas. If I built a hatch, it would be strong enough to stand on - and be hinged along its forward edge. Likewise, a canvas cover would be semi-permanently attached along its forward edge - then held securely to the deck - perhaps with loops of shock cord.

Hope this helps!

SJS

 

[Noah Shaver]

Thank you for the detailed pictures and explanations Steve, that is great. I also planned on gunning over the port side. My hunting partner is left handed and will be sitting in the bow end of the cockpit. His swing and my swing naturally work out better to gun over the port side. The only thing I will modify on my design compared to yours is the angle at which the flaps close.

I want my flaps to close together at a steeper angle to help close up the black hole from above. I will use brush to cover whatever hole remains.

I have seen guys that have been able to find the "just right" position at which two hinges can be mounted directly to L brackets bolted to the hull so that a frame does not have to be made to "square up" the flapper mounting locations. I know it is possible to install flappers directly to the hull of a TDB 14 classic, it just takes two guys to dry fit everything together to find the locations at which it does not bind.

What plywood material did you fashion your flappers from? I was thinking 3/8" MDO. Did you use that same material for the flapper with vision ports?

Thanks again!
-Noah

 

[Steve Sanford]

Thank you for the detailed pictures and explanations Steve, that is great. I also planned on gunning over the port side. My hunting partner is left handed and will be sitting in the bow end of the cockpit. His swing and my swing naturally work out better to gun over the port side. The only thing I will modify on my design compared to yours is the angle at which the flaps close.

I want my flaps to close together at a steeper angle to help close up the black hole from above. I will use brush to cover whatever hole remains.

I have seen guys that have been able to find the "just right" position at which two hinges can be mounted directly to L brackets bolted to the hull so that a frame does not have to be made to "square up" the flapper mounting locations. I know it is possible to install flappers directly to the hull of a TDB 14 classic, it just takes two guys to dry fit everything together to find the locations at which it does not bind.

What plywood material did you fashion your flappers from? I was thinking 3/8" MDO. Did you use that same material for the flapper with vision ports?

Thanks again!
-Noah

Noah~

I like "almost closed" overhead as well. Part of that comes from nice long grass and the other comes from custom-fitted chocks. I make mine out of PVC "lumber" and secure them to the coamings with decoy line - so they do not get lost.



Here's a pattern. It hooks over the coaming on a South Bay Duckboat.



I typically use AC plywood. My current lumber yard has Radiata Pine - which is mostly clear. I fill any voids on the C side with thickened epoxy.

MDO would certainly work as well. If you use 3/8, you may want a stiffener (3/4" x 3") along the lower edge - or use lumber for thatch rails.

The framework is built from clear pine boards. Sealed with spar varnish then 2 coats of oil duckboat paint.

All the best,

SJS

 

[David K]

I have an original Duck Invader 13 , it truly is the best of both worlds.You can hunt with a dodger sneakbox style, laying down with short flaps or in chairs with high flaps. View attachment 54051I

It was cool to see this boat in person. Photos don't do it justice. What an awesome craft.