solution to pirate problem

Based on the news today, I just heard a radio report, of another Somali pirate attack on another American ship carrying food aid (more irony there), the pirates attacked shooting automatic small arms fire and RPG at the ship which failed to cooperate and got away, I believe the Somali pirates are bent on revenge for their killed cohorts, and want to make an example on another American ship. I think the days of them taking ship and personel captive without violence are over, at least with Americans. I think American shiping has two choices, either not put our ships at risk by avoiding the whole area entirely, or arming our vessels.

BTW the USS Bainbridge steamed full speed ahead to the aid of the ship, but due to distance was five hours late and the pirates were long gone. I know it's an unreasonable military commitment, but it would be nice to have an aircraft carrier close, a couple scrambled FA-18s wouldn't take long to cover a couple hundred miles in afterburner.
John
 
I know we live in modern times, and history (according to some) doesn't matter because "things have changed". There are several good books about the Barbary Wars. They’re great reading; just for entertainment purposes of course.

For example one might find it entertaining to read how the USS Bainbridge is named after a rather infamous Captain that had a few "embarrassing moments" dealing with the Dey while executing orders as Captain of the Washington, and later with the Pasha while commander of the Philadelphia. I'm sure the hostages in Somalia might be able to relate to some of Captain Bainbridge’s experiences, if memory serves me. Maybe I’ll have to re-entertain myself; do a little re-reading.

Hey, I have an idea; maybe we can send over some books for the hostages to read while they wait for ransoms to be paid. I bet they would find them entertaining, seein’s how they may be there a while...you know, because we ain't lookin' ta yell "Ye Haw" anymore, or go stirrin' up some dust and kick some (pointy toed) boot stompin’ ass - genocidal style now ya here!!

Hey, maybe Obama can apologize to the pirates with the good business model. They’re good businessmen according to the guests on MS LSD. Oh - Obama’s good at apologizing and the pirates seem like level headed fellows…whoops there I go “Monday Morning Quarterbacking” again.


"The Barbary Wars" - Lambert

"Victory in Tripoli" - London

Hitch
 
Where the heck do you guys get these arsenal picks from? can I buy one of those gattling guns ,Ive been missing a lot of ducks this past season.I was thinking about using one this turkey season wadda ya think?
 
As the infamous Ripley said "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
 
that wants to solve the problem with a solution from the past....KILL EM ALL...

And one that wants to solve the problem with a solution from the future...KILL EM ALL....

never mind neither solutio applies since neither situation is the same......

I love it though....what a nice simple solution......just never thought about Ripley being a far right wing Republican whose solution for everything was "kill em all cause they're either all the enemy or if not then its an acceptable collateral damage"....

Steve
 
hillary said last night we got to put the fire out so we can rebuild the house.... is she really wanting to rebuild Somilia? They haven't had a governement or law since 1990, why rebuild anything there when theres nobody to turn it over to? While I don't want to kill them all, I certainly think killing everyone of them trying to take over a merchant vessel is a good thing to do. One helicopter carrier with cobra gunships I would think could clean the whole area up, and make for some exciting reality tv. travis
 
that wants to solve the problem with a solution from the past....KILL EM ALL...

And one that wants to solve the problem with a solution from the future...KILL EM ALL....

never mind neither solutio applies since neither situation is the same......

I love it though....what a nice simple solution......just never thought about Ripley being a far right wing Republican whose solution for everything was "kill em all cause they're either all the enemy or if not then its an acceptable collateral damage"....

Steve
Click to expand...
Steve,

Why do you assume it is only far right Republicans who want to kill them all, as a rather right wing conservative I take offence at that. I have to tell you, my very left wing Democrat best friend in LA is way more inclined to Killing Them All than I am. My position is to arm the all the ships and kill any "pirates" that attempt to take a ship. I don't have a good understanding of whatever legal, or practical issues are involved in doing that, but I belive that if implimented, and these Somalis who have had easy pickens are suddenly getting blown out of the water with nothing to show for it, the piracy would come to a screeching halt. Since these Somalis seem to be motovated by money rather than ideology, I think they would be more pragmatic than islamic extremist.

The ships and crews currently held hostage are a trick problem. Stage commando raids, wait them out or pay the ramsomes knowing that with protection future pirate raids are over.
 
rather like I mis-read the original post that started this thread youu have mis-read mine....my reference to "right wing conseratives" or "far right Republicans" was specific to one person and is a long standing habit of he and I to refer to each other in such a manner....(he refers to me as a croc wearing, butterfly catching, bunny humping, tutu wearing bleeding heart socialist and I refer to him as a "knuckle dragging, ultra conservative, who makes Rush Limbaugh look like a who he thinks I am".....so rest easy the reference wasn't made to be all encompassing.....

For the record I favor offing the Pirates, when they are in the act of Piracy....I'm not in favor of arming the merchant seaman because thats not their job, plus it would take time to train them and something needs to be done NOW.....I think Travis has the best idea.....put a Marine Carrier with VTOL capabilities in the area and respond to any call for help, from ships of all flags, by scrambling a Harrier to off the thugs......

That keeps the pirates anger focused on the military and not the Merchant Seamen of the ships that they are trying to hijack....

American ships I would deploy security teams on immediately since they are going to be targeted so that there is no doubt in the Pirates minds that if they target Americans then Americans will respond, immediately and with deadly force.....

And as I've said I hate the thought of putting boots on the ground there....like Travis says there's no Government to take out that will stop the piracy and there's no central control that could be eliminated to stop it.....put troops on the ground and the next thing we know we're stuck rebuilding another shit hole for the next FOREVER......pop the Pirates on the water when all you're taking out is a small boat and you not only stop the pirates but also avoid all the other "downside" of a ground invasion....

Gotta run.....my Tutu just came out of the spin cycle and my croc's need a fresh application of sparkle armorall.....plus I just saw a butterfly that needs catching.....

Steve


Steve
 
Sorry for my over-reaction, I didn't pick up on the good natured running battle between you two. I think we pretty much agree on everything else you state. The smaller marine carrier with Harriers is a great idea, as I don't think the USN is in the position of staging a carrier battle group in the area just to thrwart pirates. Your idea of dropping a drill press on their heads is a good idea to, and a lot less expensive.

I am really nervous right now as it looks like the pirates are aching to make an example by killing some American merchant seamen. I'm sure all of the shipping owners are cognizant of this and are either completely avoiding the area or are making provisions to protect the crew with more than fire hoses, at least I hope so.

John
 
but clearly we arent' dealing with people with a very high level of good sense....its one thing to stand outside the Tiger cage and yell at the Tiger.....another thing indeed to be stupid enough to jump over the fence and kick him.....

To my knowledge, and I could certainly be wrong, the single hostage and the pirates killed by the French Commandos and then the three killed by the Navy Seals were the first causalties in these confrontations....up till now the Pirates seemed to be intelligent to realize that as long as all they did was fire their guns in the air, scare thee crap out of a bunch of guys who just wanted to do their job, and to make sure that the hostages were kept safe while the ransom money was in transit that not much would happen....then they take an American ship and a French rich guys sailboat and an American Merchant vessel and got stupid.....some of them die and they threaten revenge......O.K. thats expected but what I wouldn't have expected is that they'd have the balls to actually attack a ship like they did? I figured they'd talk and then just concentrate on ships flgged by countries that wouldn't fight back and that would pay the ransom if taken........

I don't know how many American ships are in that "million square miles of operation" but I can't beleive that a day after a threat like was made that that ship was allowed to be 6 housrs from help..that just doesn't make sense to me.....

Its definately a different scenario now and it looks like these idiots will now be shooting at AMericans now instead of around them.....definately that cat and the EAgle thing that Jeff posted.......

Steve
 
FORGET ARMING/TRAINNING THE CREWS. THE BEST SOLUTION AND BY FAR THE LEAST EXPENSIVE,WOULD BE TO HAVE A SQUAD OF MILITARY BOARD EVERY US FLAG SHIP THAT PASSSES THROUGH THE AREA THE PIRATES OPERATE IN.THEY COULD BE BERTHED IN WAR SHIPS AT EITHER END OF THE DANGER AREA AND BOARD WHEN THE SHIP ENTERS,GET OFF AT THE OTHER END.THESE SQUADS WOULD HAVE ARMS NOT AVAILABLE TO TRAINED CIVILIAN CREWS,NOT TO MENTION THE TRAINNING THEY ALREADY HAVE.THE MILITARY SHOULD BE PROTECTING AGAINST THE PIRATES,AND HAS DONE THIS A FEW TIMES BEFORE. HEY ISMAL,IS THAT A SHOULDER ROCKET LAUNCHER THAT GUY ON THE FANTAIL IS HOLDING?? DON'T KNOW,BUT THAT FIREY THING IS COMING RIGHT AT US................KABOOM....END OF PROBLEM.
 
I don't think its so much of how many American ships there are , Its the fact that there are American's could be on board any shipping vessel. They ( pirates ) may just as easily stop targeting American vessels , but what happens when they board a ship registered under another flag and 1 or 2 guys "happen" to American?

Shoot them ? toss them over ? anything to get rid of them ? or let them go ?

Freighters have some serious multinational crews sometimes.

(i never thought I would say this......................)

QUOTE
Its definately a different scenario now and it looks like these idiots will now be shooting at AMericans now instead of around them.....

i AGREE WITH you Steve............................whew, wow that didn't hurt as bad as I thought it would , Don't start the stump dance just yet......;)
 
ships don't have to agree to allow armed escorts on them...and in fact it would appear that many have already made that decision.....I don't think the United States could "force" another country to allow armed guards on board just because some of the crew were American....

In that case I'd say the American crew member is taking his chance just like any other place in the World where you know that its not safe to go, and even less safe if you're American, but you go anyway.....scares me to say this but that would seem to be THE PERFECT scenario for these guys.....take a foreign flagged ship, discover an American in the crew, and while the camera's are rolling execute him for the World to see.....

Sort of like Sitting Bull at the Little Big Horn I'd think....win the battle but lose the war cause I think that would blow up in the their face but these guys have already proven that they don't think the same way that we do.....

If they do something like that it will be a real change in the way they operate...up to now they have been very careful not to hurt anyone, they don't sink the boats, they don't kill people, they don't steal the cargo, and from all indications they treat the hostages pretty well, even to the extent of providing them with Western food.....pretty smart if you ask me.....once they start killing people everything changes and its not something I would think they would want to happen...

I reckon we'll see.....

Steve
 
There are a lot of people giving the Somalis a whole lot of credit in the brains and motivation departments.

These various groups of pirates are led by separate leaders who appear to live for their own control and enjoyment by the law of the bullet with a little assistance from their daily chew, "khat". Its use is rampant in Somalia.

Khat is used for its stimulant effects. The effects are similar to but less intense than those of methamphetamine or cocaine. Fresh leaves are chewed and dried leaves are smoked, made into a paste and chewed, or brewed in tea. Used moderately, khat alleviates fatigue and reduces appetite. Long term use or abuse can cause insomnia, anorexia, gastric disorders, depression, liver damage and cardiac complications. Manic behavior, delusional behavior, violence, suicidal depression, hallucinations, paranoia and khat-induced psychosis have also been reported.

I believe that there are very few Rhodes Scholars currently out boating with the pirates at this time, based on their behavior and notably, their claims that they are putting the U.S. "on alert". We are talking about drugged out illiterates with way more gunpowder than brains. Like Travis said, prison would be a step up from their current lifestyle. The danger is, in my opinion, that at the start of the day, they dont have anything to live for except for the AK they took off their dead buddy yesterday. Take a few hits of Somali Wowie and we got a gunfight happening before lunch. Each day half of them stay behind and try to make it thru a hot day surrounded by machine gun totin' idiots, the rest go out on the high seas to "retaliate" against the ill wind blown there by the evil Americans.

Give me a break...one squad of Marines onboard each US flagged ship ought to be plenty... and every other country has its own squad of Marines.

Life's a bitch out there in international water...if you point a rifle at someone, its only right that they point one back.
 
by now there would have been some dead seamen floating from the attempts and the successful hijackings.....

I'm not saying these guys are smart but they have seemed to be savvy enough, up to now anyway, to realize that if they don't kill anyone then they likely won't get killed....if what I read is true they haven't even been firing AT crewman rather they just do the old "we got guns and you don't" crap and see if they canintimidate their way on board.....

Somewhere, someone, is smart enough to say to this thugs..."if you kill the crewmen you're dumbass won't be able to get that big ass ship to port and someone will come and take it back so DON'T KILL THEM"....and then when they get them to harbor someone is smart enough to realize that cargo doesn't get your ransom paid but LIVE people do so they keep them "safe" cause "someone" knows that "live is good-dead is bad--both for our payoff and our health-please pass the khat".....

So I'm not saying they're "Rhodes Scholars" but I am saying they have bee smart enough up til now not to bring a rain of fire down upon themselves........TIL NOW....

Steve
 
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