topic [10 gauge vrs 12 gauge in 3 1/2 inch shells]

Lee and Joe,
Well I just got off the phone w/ BP and they don't know either. I gave a few loads to my teaching partner who has a couple 28s and he will shoot them, tommorrow we will know more (hows that for an educator truism?). I wil let you all know what we find out. You can learn more here by accident than elswhere on purpose.
 
Still gotta hit them no matter what you use!
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Still gota find the ducks, right Lee? And we both know there are no ducks here.

Poor Shermie, asks a question about big freaking goose guns, and you guys start talking about your little 28s.

Honestly though, I hunted with a couple guys that had 10s when I was a kid, and they were nice enough to share, and although it seemed really cool then to have a big gun, I am now older and wiser (well maybe on the latter) and I wouldn't bother to shoot a 3 1/2 of either gauge. I am currently shooting 3" 12 gauge shells, and when that box is gone I figure I'll just use 2 3/4". Bring then in close, big guns are just an excuse to skybust, IMHO.

Chuck
 
Chuck, I could have done almost as well around here last year...throwing rocks. All my birds were Canadian except for the couple I got here.
 
knows everything about the load you used except the amount of Universal powder you used.(weighed).

Shermie,get the 10ga.If you can get the amo you want for it,you'll be happy with the large bore.Ammo can be a problem in many areas.I wouldn't want a 31/2" 12ga.You looking at a SxS or an auto??
 
I respect your opinion, but I don't think they are an excuse to skybust. That's the person, not the gun, and a person who will skybust doesn't need an excuse.

I think they have been marketed that way, the same way the 3" 12-gauge was marketed a la Bo Whoop. We could go off on the tangent of marketing, the idea that we have to get there faster, have more, shoot farther, kill "deader", etc. in order to be "successful", but Shermie doesn't deserve that.

The choice of gun is just that, a choice. And honestly, my experience here in Arkansas has been that a person with a 10 has generally gone that route for a specific reason, where someone with a 3 1/2" 12 gauge more likely bought it, "because". Not saying better hunter, etc.; just saying that they know it's a gun with a specific purpose.
 
Joe, The load is a weighed 17 gr. set up with a universal bar and a a scale. I learned a while ago not to trust bushing charts and probably have a few boxes of bloopers left around. The Wad is a BP SG28-II. The recipe came from BP's 28 book so again W.T.H. I am going to check the loader again with a scale tonight, wish me luck. BTW I will start a new thread when I know more, sorry Shermie
 
I think my target load is about 3/4oz with 13 gr of Universal clays in a AA hull (old style) 209 primer and win AA wad.
 
I agree with you Les.
i've owned and hunted with the 10 Ga. a spanish double (it killed on both ends) and an Ithica Mag 10. I've also used a Browning 3 1/2 and a Rem. 3 1/2. More than once when I had the 10's I'd have 2 guns in the blind and decided too late which gun to shoulder on a particular shot. Neither of the 10's ever patterned well with any shot I tried. They'd pattern pretty tight but they had sanctimonious patterns (Holier than they should have been)The 12 Ga. 3.5's also left a lot to be desired in the way of even patterns. I now shoot 3" guns exclusively for waterfowl and usually with a Skeet or Skeet 2 choke. I try hard to shoot Decoying birds and have found the lower constrictions seem to work so very much better especially with the Federal steel loads I use. I remember an article written by Don Zutz a number of years back that said the guys trying to push 1 1/2 oz. of shot through a 12 bore were constricting the shot too much for even patterns. Back in the lead shot days about the heaviest load I could get to pattern right was 1 3/8 oz.

PM me when you go up to see Brad Taylor so maybe we can all 3 get together.
Best,
Harry
 
I respect your opinion, but I don't think they are an excuse to skybust. That's the person, not the gun, and a person who will skybust doesn't need an excuse.

I think they have been marketed that way, the same way the 3" 12-gauge was marketed a la Bo Whoop. We could go off on the tangent of marketing, the idea that we have to get there faster, have more, shoot farther, kill "deader", etc. in order to be "successful", but Shermie doesn't deserve that.

The choice of gun is just that, a choice. And honestly, my experience here in Arkansas has been that a person with a 10 has generally gone that route for a specific reason, where someone with a 3 1/2" 12 gauge more likely bought it, "because". Not saying better hunter, etc.; just saying that they know it's a gun with a specific purpose.
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Rick,

I probably could have phrased that better. In my experience, the guys that brought "big guns" to the blind, used the marketing hoopla of their guns as an excuse to shoot too soon and not let the birds work. Not that a big gun cannot be used 'properly', they just have a bad tendency to attract the wrong type of hunter. Nonsence aside, if I were to ever buy a gun with 3 1/2" chambers, I would definately go with the 10.

Chuck
 
Hi Tom,
Back when I was on the skeet trails I had a number of 28 ga 2 3/4 " hulls separate from the base. Those were mostly more than once fired Remington Peters hulls though on occasion a WW would separate too. I did a lot of reloading even though 28 ga. and 410 bore weren't as expensive back then.

Never had that problem with 12 or 20 Ga. reloads.
Best,
Harry

PS That 28 Ga. Wingmaster will make a great bird gun. I had a skeet grade gun with beautiful wood and like an idiot I sold it.
 
I just ran up the Hodgen load data for a WW AA case and primer,3/4 oz of lead and various wads and the powder charge was 13-13.2 of Universal.One load's pressure was at 12,200.I have never exceeded 14 grains with that set up.I'm expecting a shipment from BP shortly with the 28ga load book included.I'll check it out when I get it.Hard to believe that the BP wad,hull, and primer, would call for a 3 grain increase.
 
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Joe, I just checked the same load and you are right. BUT the load I am using is Fiochi 2 1/2 " hulls with 5/8 oz of shot. I am still waiting to have my friend shoot some in his guns and we will see????? He has three different 28s to try- a BPS, a XS Browning and an over under 12 ga. tubed so it should be a good test of the loads.It still is a puzzle and you can bet I won't shoot any more until it is solved.:<)
 
In the interest of full disclosure, my user name on the other forums is "MagTen".

I have shot two Remington SP-10s over the last eight years and have had very good luck with them - mechanically and hunting effectiveness on wood ducks to swans. I sold the first one to get an SBE II and missed the SP-10 so much I bought another. By the way, I can shoot the 10 3/4-lb. SP-10 all day long with steel, but the 7 1/2-lb. SBE is far less comfortable with 3 1/2" shells. I carried my first for 5 turkey seasons because paper testing reveals that it will kill a gobbler at over 50 yards, but all my birds were shot within 25 yards.

My only regret with the 10 is that Kent doesn't make Fasteel in 10 gauge, as I shoot Fasteel exclusively in my 12 gauges. After lots of experimentation on paper and experience with lots of waterfowl, I shoot two loads through a PM choke. Winchester SS in BB steel handle everything for me. However, when I hunt Canada geese or swans, I shoot two BB's backed by a Remington HD in #2. (I'll go to HD #4's when I restock.) The BB's provide a more open pattern and good killing performance inside 40 yards, while the HD patterns more tightly and will kill a goose or swan farther than I want to admit.

Bottom line, I don't NEED an SP-10, but love to shoot it. In my experience, the 10 kills waterfowl more decisively than the 12. Especially, when shooting distances are longer.
 
Joe, the Fiochi hulls are straight sided inside and have more volume. The older AA's are tapered inside and have less volume...think of a 357 load in a 38 special case. Look at Federal hulls loads and you will see that they take a few more grains to get the same results. The only plus to the straight walled hulls is you can put bigger payloads in them. The best hull to date though is the new Win. AAHS as it is a 2 piece hull now without the taper of the old aa 1 piece...still not as cavernous as a Fiochi or Cheddite but they last a whole lot longer for reloading.
 
Right,the Fiocchi's are straight sided.All of my experience with them has been in 20ga.They are about a 1/16" longer than AAs or RXP hulls,causing an adjustment problem on my Mec loader,with the crimp,so I cut them down.Now Tom is using the 21/2" hull with a 5/8 oz load.I punched up the data from Hodgdon on the Fiocchi hull,but only 23/4" was shown.Still the max load listed was 15.2gr with a fed wad (I think).Will be interested to get the 28ga loading book from BP to see what they recommend.Can it be that the shorter hull call for 2gr more powder with a lighter load?I find that hard to believe,with any suitable wad.
 
I looked it up in the BP book and 17gr was the max load for that hull and 5/8 oz. The pressure listed was 11,200..or there abouts and the 28 max is 12,500. That was with the 2.5 hull, sg28 wad , fio. primer and a ROLL crimp. I just read a conversation where roll and fold crimps didn't really make a difference on measured pressures.
 
Lee, That is the one that I used. I am going to shoot some more this afternoon after I size the loads. They were primed new hulls so they weren't sized. Just another piece of the puzzle.
 
I am, the load came from a guy out your way who uses 28's and 410's..for ducks, geese and swans. It's a hevi shot load and it is a pure killer..I don't shoot over 25 yards usually and he says that's too close that the pattern isn't opened up. I have a hard time pulling the trigger with any guage on birds much further away than that but it will do it.
 
Not yet and maybe not ever because I have a 870 20ga. Express w/ Hevi that works about the same. BUT I have learned never say never. I may use it on pheasants though if I hunt over a pointer sometime.
 
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