topic [10 gauge vrs 12 gauge in 3 1/2 inch shells]

Ok,

I was searching the forum for 10 ga posts and thought this one was very interesting. I thought the information was worth a bump with the given information instead of making a new post. I'm not even sure if these members are still around or not but if they are perhaps they will chime in. I think that in the 12 years since this original post, most of us would agree that there is enough 12ga loads and chokes that negates any need to use a 10 ga other than for nostalgia or sentimental reasons. My choice would be the latter.

This past outfitting season I was given an old 10g Ithaca Mag-10 as a gift from a client turned friend. I have not fired the gun yet. It is a fixed choke barrel of all 32" so its a doozy!

I did just order some ammunition which are essentially small production loads from a small company in Tennessee ( https://www.backridgeammunition.com/ ) . I ordered two boxes of #6, 3 1/2 for turkeys and then 1 box of #2, 3 1/2 shells for this coming fall for my Tundra swan hunt. Both shells are loaded with ITX13 which is a heavier than lead product, about 13g/cc. It is not a TSS which weighs in at an astounding 18g/cc, but I'm also not interested in paying the TSS price of 5 shells for $62! Yikes!!

I think both of my choices should work out very well with the #6 for turkeys and the #2 for swans. Any thoughts or opinions would be great! Thanks!
 
Kyle Hauck said:
Ok, most of us would agree that there is enough 12ga loads and chokes that negates any need to use a 10 ga other than for nostalgia or sentimental reasons. My choice would be the latter.
Click to expand...

Kyle, some are still around, some have moved on, some have passed on. Glad you pulled it up because there is still value in these older posts.

I guess I'm in the minority with your above statement. I'm not convinced loads and chokes alone replaced the 10 gauge performance. The gun still has a lot to do with it. Unless the gun absorbs recoil very well hot loads will cause bruising and flinching when shot from many of today's 12 gauges. A 9+ lb shotgun, typical for a 10 gauge, is simply better able to reduce recoil. Shotshell payload velocity & mass certainly dictate lethality downrange, but if it hurts or is unpleasant the gunner will flinch or otherwise miff the shot because of impending discomfort. There are some 12 gauges on the market that absorb the energy, and others that don't. So it is as much a matter of what gun as it is what ammo. E.g. I'll gladly tote a 9+ lb 10 gauge with long range load into the field than I will shoot a pump or inertia driven gun with 3 1/2" loads. Been there, done that, NEVER again.

Lucky for me I don't really have to make that choice though. Puddle and diver ducks at 40 yards and less is my typical target and long range loads aren't called for.
Eric
 
Last edited:
Eric,

I guess I can't give a true statement on my personal experience from a 12 gauge standpoint because I like you love to have the puddle ducks in my face, preference inside of 20 yards, mostly because I love to see them finish as far as possible.

I also only own 2 3/4 or 3" guns with the 3" being inertia driven franchi affinity which I absolutely love and have not found any loads that are uncomfortable.

I'm sure both experiences I am looking to have with the 10 ga would be easily done with either a 12 or 20, but it is the personal quest and sentiment to shoot the 10ga.
 

I was not a member 12 years ago.


I have owned a Mag 10, and now a SP 10.

Used lead shot and steel shot in both, and fired many rounds over many years.


IMO the 10ga is far superior than the 3 inch, and 3 1/2 inch, 12 ga.


I most certainly do not use the 10ga. for nostalgic, and sentimental reasons.

I use it for personal satisfaction, and shooting quality reasons.

Saves my shoulder from getting black and blue, and puts XX's in the eyes of the birds hunted.

Once you get a Mag 10, or SP 10, moving you will not stop the gun = much better shooting, and less wasted ammo.


The 10ga will not beat the hell out of you day after day like the 3 inch, and 3 1/2 inch, 12ga. will, and flinch ruins a shooter faster than anything.

Hence the release trigger trap shooters use to fool their brain, after years of physical pain caused by shooting.


If your Mag 10 has not been reworked, it may not cycle when fired straight up. This was a major problem with the gun that Remington improved upon.

The gas port had to be enlarged to cycle the bolt and carrier.


I used the SP 10 for turkey for many years with success.

Now that I'm older. I find no need to carry so much gun around for turkey. My Model 12 Heavy Duck with 2 3/4, and 3 inch shells works just fine, as very few shots are fired.


When it comes to many days of goose & duck hunting in a row. I'll take the 10ga., gladly and be a happy man.


A 3 inch 20ga. is not a 16ga., and a 3 1/2 inch 12ga. is not a 10ga.


my 2 cents

VP
 
Kyle Hauck said:
I'm sure both experiences I am looking to have with the 10 ga would be easily done with either a 12 or 20, but it is the personal quest and sentiment to shoot the 10ga.
Click to expand...

That is a fine reason to shoot a new gun/load combination. I never really figured myself as a sxs shooter until this season I experienced gunning with an HE Fox and fell in love with the heavier follow-through. Still getting used to the heftier feel and dual trigger after two decades with semi-autos, but am thoroughly enjoying the new look and feel.

I looked up that Mag-10 and low and behold it is gas operated and 11 1/4 pounds. I would expect minimal recoil with that mass and action. Let us know, sounds fun.

Eric
 
Well said Vince- one thing to add is that when I bought my 10 gauge (around 1990) steel shot shells were no very good. A buddy and I bought 4 dozen goose floaters and started to target them and using the ten really helped get us birds.
 

Tom Whitehurst said:
Well said Vince- one thing to add is that when I bought my 10 gauge (around 1990) steel shot shells were no very good. A buddy and I bought 4 dozen goose floaters and started to target them and using the ten really helped get us birds.
Click to expand...


Tom,

Thank you.

I agree. Much of the steel shot for the 10ga. when steel was mandated, was of poor quality, especially Federal. Winchester had about the best, but was not easy to find.


Many years ago I read that Pass Shooting was the purest form of waterfowling.

Mr. Nash was very good at it, as was Mr. Heilner, and many other famous shot gunners.


Well that was a tough pill for me to swallow, as I like decoys, and carve/make decoys.


But like all other hunting, it is more about scouting, and learning, before shooting.

So in time I got pretty good at it. In the proper conditions I found it even more enjoyable than hunting over decoys.


Felt more one on one, and as my best gunning partner used to say. "Take em as they come, not how you want em."

Many a time when the birds would not toll to decoys, for whatever reason.

Pass Shooting properly, put birds on the strap, and on the table.


VP



View attachment shootout at the OK coral.jpg
 
Well this certainly is a blast from the past!

Strange but also nice to see posts by some of the guys we lost along the way.
 
Hi Kyle,
Thank you for bringing this old thread up. To echo the others, the 10 is definitely superior to the 3 1/2? .12 bore. I?ll go one step further and say that, in my opinion, the 3 1/2? 12 ga is a SCAM to sell more ammo.
I used to reload and when you think about the loads it makes sense. While the 3 1/2? .12 ga gives a nice pattern on paper, you aren?t seeing the long shot string. The shot column in the hull is rectangular which will increase shot string. Ideally you want the pellet load to be square to shorten the shot string.
How can 2 oz in a 12 ga load perform the same as 2 oz out of a 10 bore?
The 10 gauge is a mighty gauge!!
 
I have shot an sp-10 almost exclusively on field geese, great lakes divers, and east coast brant, buffleheads, and blacks for twenty years, i also have a spaghetti stick (beretta al-390) and i have shot it on ducks....but nothing, i repeat, NOTHING lays a hammer on ducks and geese like a full payload of 10 gauge #2?s.
 
All this talk got me curious about my HE Fox and how these guns produce a legendary tight pattern of 90+% at 40 yards, as compared to 70-75% of most guns you buy off the rack today.

Well let's assume for a minute those numbers are correct. If I shoot a 2 3/4" 1 1/4 oz 4 shot bismuth (1350 fps) and compare pellets on target to a bismuth 3 1/2" 1 1/2 oz 4 shot load (1450 fps) I could very well end up with identical pellet counts. This simplistic math, .9(1.25) = .75(1.5), confirms what I've always been told about my Fox. That being it shoots as hard as a 3 1/2" load, maybe better because shot stringing is a non-issue from the back bored elongated forcing cone barrel of a Super Fox, and does so with considerably less recoil. I tend to agree with Steve McCullough that a lot of modern loads are marketing gimmicks to sell ammo.

Eric
 
I use both 12 and 10, hunting the Great Lake in late season freezing temperatures and strong winds.
The 12 doesn?t kill, lots of cripples and follow up shots to kill. The 10 puts them down one pull of the trigger.
I don?t know if it?s the cold that effects the ammo or the wind.
Just my 2 cents
 
Eric Patterson said:
All this talk got me curious about my HE Fox and how these guns produce a legendary tight pattern of 90+% at 40 yards, as compared to 70-75% of most guns you buy off the rack today.

Well let's assume for a minute those numbers are correct. If I shoot a 2 3/4" 1 1/4 oz 4 shot bismuth (1350 fps) and compare pellets on target to a bismuth 3 1/2" 1 1/2 oz 4 shot load (1450 fps) I could very well end up with identical pellet counts. This simplistic math, .9(1.25) = .75(1.5), confirms what I've always been told about my Fox. That being it shoots as hard as a 3 1/2" load, maybe better because shot stringing is a non-issue from the back bored elongated forcing cone barrel of a Super Fox, and does so with considerably less recoil. I tend to agree with Steve McCullough that a lot of modern loads are marketing gimmicks to sell ammo.

Eric
Click to expand...

first of all - the super-x shell that came out with the HE used an early progressive burning powder - these powders burned longer increasing velocity as they load moved down the barrel with a push instead of an explosion. (watch a space launch ) An HE Fox with an appropriate load can produce an incredibly dense pattern with a short shot string - which is what its long range reputation is built on. there are a few HE's in our club and although we strongly discourage sky busting, in the right hands with the right non-tox loads these guns are still impressive - i am not Nash Buckingham by any stretch of the imagination. but in our summer clays shoots we throw some very long targets and it is fun to fire and wait and about the time you think you missed see the target disappear in a puff. The Super Fox was overbored and terminated in a 4 to 5 inch tapered choke

as for 10's - I have no experience with the modern roman candles - I shoot several 10s- Parkers, British and my favorite - an Ithaca Super 10 - there were about 580 of the Ithaca Supers made in the late 1920's - they are chambered for the old 2 7/8 ten load, and were Ithaca's answer to the Super Fox and the LC Smith Longrange - instead of the 10.5 to 11 pound Ithaca NID Magnum 10, the Super 10 ranged from 8.5 to 9 pounds, well balanced with 32" barrels it will as they say "reach out and touch someone"

the old timers knew what they were doing, my JP Claybrough & Bros hammer 10 bore will, with copper 4's (a load it was designed for), pattern an honest 92% in a 30" circle at 40 yards

A friend wrote an article a few years back for Double Gun Journal comparing the classic waterfowl doubles by Fox, Smith and Ithaca - they still perform admirably
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top