Vintage Doubles In My Care

Eric Patterson

Eric Patterson

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Yesterday was a long awaited day. Last fall I took two doubles to a gunsmith in GA that specializes in vintage shotguns. In case you don't know, these guys are getting scarce. Gunsmiths today are more inclined to work and know "tactical" firearms than vintage ones. But I digress.

These doubles are an AH Fox HE grade, aka Superfox, and an LC Smith "Long Range". The Superfox belonged to Jeff and was given to me by his brother. The LC Smith, oddly enough came from the same man that Jeff purchased the Superfox from. A retired Army Colonel and vet of the Korean war. He had good taste in shotguns. His son is a duck hunting partner of mine and close friend and sold a few of his dad's guns after his passing. I was excited he gave me first shot at it.

Jeff intended to restore the Fox but never did before he passed. The LC Smith had a broken stock as and was discolored. The gunsmith did an amazing job making a new stock for the Fox and finding a lightly used one for the LC Smith. To restore the coloring he case hardened the action making it look factory new. I can't wait to hunt them this year. I'll shoot the Superfox, and Thomas the Long Range. So looking forward to it! Below are some picture I took tonight. They are now family heirlooms and will be Thomas's when I'm done. Hopefully that will be a while!


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That's a fine pair of sxs's, well suited to chasing waterfowl. The gunsmith did a good job on the wood and metal, a nice balance between restoration and "too much". Hope you and Thomas enjoy them.
 
Pretty sweet right there. The 2 of you are going to be quite a pair when you hunt with those this fall.
 
Thanks everyone. I plan to run Boss 2 3/4" #5 bismuth. The LC is chambered 3" but I see no need to use 3" ammo. 2 3/4" is fine for the occasions we'll shoot them.

Here's a double question for the well versed. What are the classic US made doubles for the purpose of duck and goose hunting to have in one's collection. Certainly, the LC and Fox are on the list. Who else made a double for the purpose of water fowling. The Winchester 21 should be on the list. What others are there? BTW, I just looked at Win 21s on gunbroker. $6k is entry level and they go up fast. But a guy can dream.

Eric
 
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Do you shoot them OK? I need less drop in the stock, not that I'm an amazing shot in the first place, every time I see something old that piques my interest, I shoulder it and am immediately convinced I don't need it.
 
Tod

I throw the gun up eyes closed and then open and look down the barrel. That test doesn't show any major issues. I did do a fitting for the Super stock. We used the original and he removed some wood until the above test gave satisfactory results. Had to remove some wood on the side of the stock because my fat cheek was preventing my eye from getting in line with the barrel. I won't know for sure how I shoot with it until I run a few boxes through it at moving targets.

Eric
 
That is great about the custom fitting, glad you did that. Wood on those is really inspiring. I decided a while ago that I wasn't buying standard wood again. I just haven't bought anything wood since.
 
Great job on the Guns good choice in the boss. the Boss 2 3/4 is the same load as their 3 inch. They work well in my wildfowl and Win 21. I fell and broke a little Fox last year and had to restock with a blank I had been saving for my winchester it came out nicenice 20.jpg
 
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Eric Patterson said:
Thanks everyone. I plan to run Boss 2 3/4" #5 bismuth. The LC is chambered 3" but I see no need to use 3" ammo. 2 3/4" is fine for the occasions we'll shoot them.

Here's a double question for the well versed. What are the classic US made doubles for the purpose of duck and goose hunting to have in one's collection. Certainly, the LC and Fox are on the list. Who else made a double for the purpose of water fowling. The Winchester 21 should be on the list. What others are there? BTW, I just looked at Win 21s on gunbroker. $6k is entry level and they go up fast. But a guy can dream.

Eric
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those turned out very nice, they will serve you well

as for other vintage side be side duck guns, many Parker shooters consider a tightly choked 32" 3 frame 12ga to be a worthy example- they are actively sought after -

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if you really want a special duck gun, in the 1920s the Widgeon Duck Club in California ordered 10 Parker DHEs in 20ga with 32" barrels (consecutive serial nbrs I believe) 5 or 6 of them are known to still exist- the others may be in closets or in the hands of shooters who don't know the provenance

another really effective dedicated waterfowl gun was the Ithaca Super 10 NID - fewer of them were made than the Super Fox (only 580). The Ithaca Super 10 should not be confused with the Ithaca Magnum 10 which is a 3" chamber 10 plus pound monster - The Super 10 weighs in around 8 1/2 pounds and is chambered for the 2 7/8 "short ten" tightly choked with 32" barrels it is a wonderfully effective waterfowl gun. the biggest issue beyond so few made is that when the Ithaca 3" magnum came out many folks had the chambers lengthened on the Supers which the barrel contour was not designed for, and many chokes were opened in the steel shot days - I had three shipped to me before finding an unmolested example


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Allen and Rick

Lovely guns. Some of the doubles Rick mentioned sound quite rare. I suspect the Win 21 might be the only one in reach, and they aren't cheap. I googled 30k Win 21s were made. Seems quite numerous to carry such a steep used price tag. Must have made a big impact on the market when they were being made and carried a great reputation.

Eric
 
Eric, Those are both beautiful examples of the American Doubles, I love the Prince of Wales grip on either SxS or O/U's. While not a vintage SxS I've always wanted a Ruger Gold Label, the price on those have shot up considerably in recent time, but like you said a guy can dream.
 
My guess that I will fire someone up with my opinion of Model 21s. But everyone tends to look at things somewhat differently. Regarding the American doubles made for waterfowling, Fox, L.C. Smith, Parker, Ithaca, and Winchester, I place the very low grades of Model 21s at the bottom. When Winchester decided to make a double, they used the BSA boxlock as a model. Those BSAs were plain stout machine made guns. They were one of the most inexpensive gun in the UK. When I look at a low grade Model 21 I just see a BSA. Of course Model 21s were made in high grades, and these are the ones with lofty prices. To a degree, the Model 21s popularity, especially when they were first made, was due to Winchester putting Model 21s in famous individual's hands. I gave all my books to Delta so can't come up with the names of a few of these. But for example, a person like Babe Ruth might have been given one, and the word spread around that he shot a Model 21. My opinion: A low grade Model 21 isn't any better than a Parker VH, Fox Sterlingworth, L.C. Smith Field or a Ithaca NID. The only difference is that one would likely be priced higher. There is a mystique surrounding Model 21s that is still evident today.

Last year I picked up a Parker VH 3 inch. It was a somewhat worn gun but I shot it all last season and like it. I paid $1500 for it. I once had a three inch L.C. Field that I paid less for.

While I think I have mentioned this before in the past on this page, some of my favorite waterfowl guns were those I had "made." I would find old 10 bores, some that couldn't be shot with modern loads, and had Briley turn them into 3 inch 12s. That involved having 12 bore barrels sleeved on the gun and chambers narrowed to 12 bore. I like heavy guns for waterfowling and these all were about nine pounds. I had five old 10s that I had this done. Sorry to say, the last time I checked Briley doesn't do this work anymore. When they did, the price was affordable, $2000. And I only paid $600 to $700 for the old 10s. Along with the stuff I gave Delta, books, art, decoys, I also gave them almost all my guns. But one I assure you I kept was a W&C backaction Premier 10 bore, which Briley turned into a 3 inch 12. Aside from shooting it, I get no end of pleasure just looking at it. It simply adds to the day! Best, Worth
 
Worth

Thank you for your insight. I was hoping you'd chime in. If Jeff was around today he'd have plenty to offer to this thread. Speaking of Jeff's guns I have some pathetic news about his collection. After Jeff passed away an unsavory "family friend" offered to buy Jeff's entire collection from Jeff's dad, who was in his late 80s, not all there and grieving over the loss of his son and wife just a few months apart. Herb was talked into selling the entire collection (100+ I'd guess) for a measly 14k. They used scare tactics like "folks are going to break in your house an rob you and maybe hurt or kill you for all these guns." Pisses me off every time I think about it. Three guns escaped that fate. The Super Fox in this thread, his Citori, and his prized 20 gauge Fox XE grade which is EXCEPTIOANLLY rare. These guns were spared because Jeff kept them in his bedroom instead of downstairs with the rest of the collection. Jeff's brother gave the guns to me and one other friend. I chose the Super, in spite of it being worth significantly less than the XE, because Jeff hunted with it numerous times with me and Thomas. It carries a personal connection that can't be replaced. I am so damn proud to have fixed it up like Jeff intended.

You made the right call getting your waterfowling possessions into the hands of those you wanted to have them. There are many opportunists disguising themselves as friends.

Eric
 
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