Whale Wars

Gary Lee

Gary Lee

Active member
Who are these idiots, why are they allowed to do what they do, and why in the world are they on the air? I don't watch too much TV, but this show caught my eye, the little bit of it that I have watched makes me sick to my stomach. These people are putting human lives at risk in order to stop the harvesting of whales, not to mention breaking many laws I'm sure. Anyone have any information on these tools?
 
Well it is called anything to sale airtime....sensational horse manure.....just remember the people that are watching this stuff also vote......no wonder the House and the Senate are filled with dysfunctional politicians....
 
100% Tree Hugger.......

Gary...ever seen a Whale? Do you have the slightest idea what a Whale in the ocean is? Have you ever even seen an Ocean?..can you imafgine an Ocean without Mammals? .....and whose life are they putting at risk....their own?.......isn't that their choice?.....you feeling bad about them risking their life for something they believe in or are you so naive as to believe that they are jeopordizing the lives of the whalers?

Stahl....you've worked the ocean...you've seen "lots of Whales"....so what?....I can take you tomorrow here in Washington and show you "lots" of Sage Grouse..... that doesn't mean that they haven't declined 95+% in this State no matter how many you see yet they just narrowly escaped being listed as endangered and probably should have been......

And you want us to feel bad about the poor Japanses stopping their longterm LIE that they call "scientific whaling" which is just an excuse to continue commercial whaling via a loophole?....tell me, if you would exactly, what the Japanese are contributing to "Science" when they are killing whales to butcher and sell the meat? I'd love to hear it because they sure as hell haven't been able to provide that information to the Whaling Commission...

And aren't these the same Japanese that just stated today that they would fight ANY legislation that reduced the harvest of Bluefin Tuna? Screw the Japanese.....

And lets not forget the Makah in their "big canoe".....oh yeah I saw that one too....the one being TOWED to the whale by a power boat.....you reckon the "traqditional Makah" had power boats to tow them within a hundred yards of their whale? No...I don't think they did.....and how about the fact that the largest part of that whale rotted on the beach because the "killing" was more important to them than using it like their ancestors did.....or how about lets talk about the fact that they couldn't give away the part they did butcher cause no one wanted the stuff....wouldn't eat it......

Or how about lets talk about the fact that they, the Makah, are AMERICANs....and like all other Amercians should abide by the laws that govern us all as opposed to only those that they WANT to be governed by....want to talk about "preserving their tradition"? Well how about MY "ancestoral traditions".......My ancestors were Indian Bounty Hunters....traded scalps for land grants.....thats MY tradition....think the Government will let me practive MY TRADITION so that I don't LOSE MY HERITAGE? Screw the MAKAH...its the 22nd Century..they buy their meat at a grocery store like you do....they don't, won't, eat Whale.....so why do they need to kill one?

I bet there isn't a person on this site that wouldn't applaud a hunter that stood up for, and risked his life for, something that he strongly believed in....yet people that think that whales shouldn't be killed, illegally, or via loopholes, are crackpots, idiots and press mongerers.......

Truth told if it wasn't for "crackpots" the commercial interests would mine the oceans and leave it a wasteland.......you can hate em all you want but its people like the "crazies", (and yes I'd agree that they are crazy, and fanatical), in that show that are the reason there are mammals, or fish, in the ocean......do they sometimes go too far...sure...am I glad they have, and will....bet your hating asses......

Oh...and "nuke the Whales"?....hell yeah...and all the Wolves and the Polar Bears and anything else that you'll never see, or be priveledged to see, because we all know that if they aren't "beneficial" to us if we "can't kill them and stack them on our tailgates"....heck yeah..if there's no season on em then they have no value.....yeah...NUKE EM ALL.......



Steve
 
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Yes sage grouse have problems...some whale species have problems....many species have problems....and yes many times exploitation of a resource is the root cause.....

The underlying issue may not be if the [font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Makah were strictly traditional in the pursuit and the kill of a whale...or if they should or should not kill a whale to maintain some connection with the past....or even if the members of environmental groups such as Greenpeace are ethically right or wrong in trying to prevent the taking of a whale....

I suggest that the real issue is the casting of stone and the continual sensational reporting of the latest environmental hot button, sky is falling issue without the willingness to address the underlying cause of the decline and extinction of many species.....

What is that "cause"? It is all of us, from the Greenpeace group consuming hydro carbons in an attempt to prevent the kill of a whale....maybe the extraction of those hydrocarbons contributed to the demise on Wyoming's sage grouse plus the increase in CO2 concentrations..... To the duck hunter motoring to his hunting spot....and the marine biologist doing research....and on and on and on....we are to blame....we consume....we are silently or loudly participating in the use of resources.....we cast stones and yet are guilty.....

So lets watch some TV and we can all feel better about our own sins as the other party is portrayed as a villain....such a warm fuzzy feeling

Yes I am guilty and rather tiered of the nonsense...




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crackpot and whatever the term for "tree hugger" was back then...without him there would be no Yosemite.......

They called the men that called for the cessation of market hunting and spring hunting of Waterfowl and Shorebirds "crazy" and crackpots and whatever the term for "bunny humper" was int he early 1900's..without them there wouldn't be a shorebird on the beach or a duck in the sky.....

They called Marjorie Stoneham Douglas "crazy" and a crackpot and "tree hugger"...without her there wold be no Everglades......

They called the people that screamed for the Shrimping Industry to equip their nets with TEDS crazies and crackpots and Turtles Humpers...if it wasn't for them there would be no Se Turtles in the Atlantic......

and on, and on, and on......

Are the Sea Shepards CRAZY...oh hell yeah they are.....do I want to be one of them....NO I DON'T....sadly I don't have that courage of conviction...that willingness to risk my life for something that I feel so strongly about.......but in todays World it takes that kind of "crazy" to get people to "look" at something....for the people that have never "seen" a whale, or an Ocean to "think" about what is happening "over the horizon", .and then to consider doing something about it other than saying something assinine like "NUKE THE WHALES"......

Steve
 
So you are saying that if I disagree with the actions of others I should attack them? I watched a special on the froot loop just now and watched him cry to the media and authorities about his "crew" being attacked while they harassed hunters/fishermen. Yet it is alright for them to ram ships, foul props, throw chemicals at crew members of fishing vessels, etc.. I for one believe the actions of these people should not be spotlighted and they should all be locked up. I'm sure if one day they turn their attention towards hunters of wildfowl and start shooting your decoys, ramming you rig, slitting your truck tires, etc., you would change your outlook. Bottomline is there are other ways to go about what they are trying to accomplish.
 
you think the Japs are going to stop their "Scientific Whaling if "public opinion" isn't against them.....and wehre is that "public opinion" going to come from ....the Wahling Commission...they're the limp dicks that allow them to commercially whale under "scientifc" permits......from people that have never seen a Whale and that if they hadn't seen the show wouldn't even know that Whales were still being killed?.....from people that say, "I work ont he cean and I've seen LOTS of Whales"?.....from people that say "NUKE THE WHALES"?......yeah..that'll get it done.......

I agree they are "crazy" ...they are "over the line"......they do "push things too far"....but they do it because the average perosn knows NOTHING about what is going on in the ocean and they want people to be aware of it.......some people see that as "press mongering"...I see it as a conviction in something that they beleive in that some people can neither see, or appreciate......

Bottom line is if you don't like it....vote with your remote....turn it off......of hope in a boat and bo ram em.....the ocean is that big body of water to the East, and West, of you .....you can't miss it..... your going to need a really big boat...and alot of fuel...and big enough balls to do something other than call them crazy.....

Steve
 
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as you describe...for Whales or any other "endangered" or "otherwise illegal to take" species......

Whales, and their "value", polarize people..always have, always will....and just like African Elephants they can have an "economic" value that doesn't include commercial harvest.......

Steve
 
I wholeheartedly agree with Steve on this one.

While some of the actions of the "tree huggers' may be a bit radical the blatant commercial killing by the Japanese of a protected species is totally unacceptable and to do so using a loophole of "scientific research" is criminal.

As stewards of the gifts that God has given us we should all be appalled by the actions of the Japanese. I may not agree with all of the methods being used by the Sea Shepards but I certainly agree with their cause.
 
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I agree that issues like whaling tend to polarize people and the result is a debate presented from the extremes. Moderate views get lost in the shouting and name calling. Like most debates there are at least three points of view... the two opposing views and the truth.

I don't support commercial whaling and the Japanese have made it impossible to defend them with their lies but I would have a hard time denying the Inuit their right to harvest what they do for their own use. Some activities like commercial whaling have run their course and belong in the history books. The Sea Shepherd folks belong in jail for some of their tactics. A negotiated settlement is more likely to work and have lasting impact.

African Elephants are beautiful and majestic and an excellent example of the value of wildlife beyond table fare. Hunted to threatened status they have been protected by very aggressive game laws. Seeing the Botswana Conservation Officers in their jeeps with turret mounted guns gives one a reason to consider their value.

I don't think I will ever forget the day I drove around a corner on a road and almost ran into a big bull elephant taking a dust bath in the middle of the sand track we were driving. It was on the banks of the Okavango River near Popa Falls. The elephant faced me down at a distance of about 30 feet. With one broken tusk and one full one he towered above the vehicle as he stared at us. He lowered his head and slowly shook it from side to side, causing his ears to flap and slap against his neck. It sounded like thunder. When his trunk came up I put the vehicle in reverse and backed up as fast as I could. In my memory it seems like yesterday although it has been 17 years since that day.

There is a cost to protecting elephants. The increasingly large herds are ravaging the remaining forests and the damage is profound. Villages can be devastated when a herd passes through. Even considering this the value in tourism dollars outweighs the value of a commercial harvest. It is no different for whales.

I have seen the big five African animals in their natural environment. They were not in a zoo and I was not looking down the barrel of gun. Nothing died. I will have the memories for the rest of my life. That is good enough for me. Were it not for laws protecting the threatened animals it would not have been possible.
 
Jim, I am sorry... I don't understand what your first comment refers to. I wasn't advocating management practices for whales or elephants beyond simple protection. The guns the Botswana CO carries are for the poachers and I thought I clearly stated that despite the damage caused by the increasing elephant populations it is worth it. Humans do cross paths with whales on a daily basis and clearly they need protecting (management).

I am not going to reply to your second comment other than to say that clearly you and I differ on our view of things.
 
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Well, so far, my son, wife and inlaws have been called Japs and barbarians in this thread.
In case some of you dont know, this is the same to them as using the N-word (or the racial slur of your choice) to another racial group.

Is this what we have sunk to here?

Is killing non-endangered/threatened whales right or wrong? Hell I dont know. But I do know that using racial slurs on this site is a new low.

And like others have noted, using this analogy (barbarians) to the Japanese or Nordic whalers (aint that funny, no one has insulted them yet?), is dangerous. Many people in this world feel that hunting of any animal, no matter what its population status, is "barbaric", which puts just about every member of the DHBP into that category.

Be careful before you throw stones, it might just be your house you are hitting.
 
The barbarians are the idiots that indoctrinate that animals need no management; that my friend is false. I don't think I could EVER get a true statement of the amount of ship traffic that hits these creatures;ask a Navy man how many they have hit in their time of service. But lets leave open a law that lets Sea World indoctrinate that whaling is awful and these creatures are gentle beings. The death of one liberal wasn't enough to wake people to the idea that Orcas don't belong in swimmimg pools. Maybe if the audience was drenched in the remains of the trainer then a differant outlook would have been created. The blood sports are here to stay, whether it is duck hun ting fishing, etc, but America needs to stay out of these issues as it is not our place to govern the world.When California opens a season on whaling, then I believe as Americans we can submit a valid opinion. In the meantime, let all whales hit by ship traffic wash up on the beach to rot since you cannot do anything with them under current law. The Japanese need the ocean to sustain the country of Japan. Whale numbers have increased and that is why the future of the IWC is in doubt. Years ago, in the 60's the Caymen Islands wanted to start a sea turtle farm and everyone thought that was impossible. The Green sea turtle was reared in captivity and only ten percent were harvested. Thousands are released annually, and the Caymens get fresh meat. I see no problem with this, but I will point out that ONLY the Green turtle is threatened and all others are officially listed as Appendix one..HMMMMM Maybe the wife and I will visit for some delicous soup and turtle egg omelets one day. Just because America doesn't agree with whaling doesn't mean it shouldn't be restarted around the globe for whales with increasing numbers. Good God man, they have not been hunted for nearly fifty years.; of course there are more of them.
 
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HMMMMM Maybe the wife and I will visit for some delicous soup and turtle egg omelets one day.
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Last timeI was in Japan with my family, I saw whale meat in the supermarket.
Next time I go, I will make a point to try it. Just dont know if I can get my mother-in-law to cook it, she doesnt like it, not does my wife.
 
Well, so far, my son, wife and inlaws have been called Japs and barbarians in this thread.
In case some of you dont know, this is the same to them as using the N-word (or the racial slur of your choice) to another racial group.

Is this what we have sunk to here?

Is killing non-endangered/threatened whales right or wrong? Hell I dont know. But I do know that using racial slurs on this site is a new low.

And like others have noted, using this analogy (barbarians) to the Japanese or Nordic whalers (aint that funny, no one has insulted them yet?), is dangerous. Many people in this world feel that hunting of any animal, no matter what its population status, is "barbaric", which puts just about every member of the DHBP into that category.

Be careful before you throw stones, it might just be your house you are hitting. Couldnt agree more Carl.......at this rate DHBP will be just like the other forums very soon Best Bob
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Steve Sutton... I couldn't agree with you more.

It is everyone's right and responsiblity to stand up for what they believe in... and stand up against what they believe is wrong, no matter what the law is. That is what this country was founded upon.
 
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