Whale Wars

is that the whales that are being killed aren't like the ducks, or the foxes, that you, or I, kill...ducks, and foxes, have a "season" and during that season they are legal to hunt.....Whales, on the other hand are PROTECTED under the auspices of the International Whaling Commission, the governing body regarding whales and to which America, and Japan, and Sweden, and all the other "whaling nations" are members......

Now lets say that the IWC were the same as our USFWS.....The IWC says that Whale numbers are below the level that they can withstand harvest while the USFWS service says that Stellar's Eiders are below the level that they can withstand harvest.......with me? Now Japan decides that the "best science" is flawed and that they will ignore what the IWC says and continue to harvest Whales under the auspices of Scientific information....the stated purpose of which is to "kill whales to sample the population size to determine whether the population can support the harvest".....WHAAAAATTTT?

Now if you look at the comparison to the USFWS and Stellars Eiders then to be comparable a State, lets say Alaska, decides that the USFWS is "wrong" about the Eider numbers and decides to ignore the USFWS and allows Stellars Eiders to be shot so that they can sample the Eider population to determine whether the Eider population can handle the harvest......

THATS whats happening with "Scientific Whaling" in the World today....Meinke Whales are the primary target and that species is down over 40% from the 1980's population as a result.....if those were "eiders", or Otters, would you still think that was something that should be allowed?

Its not about "feelings" its about whether the population can support the harvest......just like with ducks, and foxes......and comparing the commercial harvest of Whales with recreational hunting is comparing Apples to asphalt......crazy to say that not supporting one will result in the loss of the other.......


Steve

Steve
 
We all have a common enemy animal rights groups and the gun control lobby. We may not agree with some because they use dogs to hunt, hunt whales, or choose to have a concealed weapon permit. But we all better realize that if we don't stand up to these people and support our fellow man in the battle they may not be there to support us. What these guys are doing is no different than activists throwing blood on you at a gas station because your towing a duck boat.

Ask yourself what you would think if they were filming shows of activists out there disrupting legal duck hunts or harrassing gun buyers??
 
Re: the Natives killing Eagles vs. Norweigians killing Whales are you not making a value judgement that "food" is more important that "religion"? Certainly those that adhere to "religion", (of whatever belief), would disagree with you on that point.....
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No, what I am saying is that knowingly killing an endangered animal for feathers, fur or food is not justifiable. Killing whales that have healthy populations to eat is justifiable. If they were killing crows for feathers, and they do that, and Norwegians were killing Right Whales to eat them I would argue the other way.

I'm fine with traditional and religious uses as long as they are curtailed out of 'respect' for the animals if the population needs it. I'm not saying Blue or Humpback should be on the menu in a Japanese restaurant but would have no trouble trying it if it were Minke or something like that.

My opinion is that whales are no smarter or cuter then any other animal and they have no more or less right to live then the ducks we hunt.

Tim
 
This is great we're in a depression in this country and the people that make everything we buy in the stores and killing whales...(JAPAN AND CHINA)We should be killing whale making jobs..There not doing it for fun NO!!!THE'RE MAKING JOBS and making profit off this...maybe if there were NO TREE huggers and go green freaks THIS COUNTRY could GET BACK ON IT FEET.....


In the words of phil robertson "If you don't know what something is shoot it,kill it,and eat it!!!"

and for all the go green freak watch out...... global warming coming for yuhhhhh!!! ha
 
Just to be clear I am not saying they should be killed because they can be and it would make jobs. I'm not saying kill em all and make a whale version of soylent green out of them.

Clearly Steve and I have different sources for numbers and who we believe. I do not want to be bunched with those who might believe resources are there to be exploited until they are used up.

Tim
 
Frank that was my point exactly.

This is how whacked out these people are. A guy was asked why he was out on a ship when he had a wife and child back in the states. His answer was something along the line that when that whale gets harpooned it's like hsi child being harpooned and slaughtered in front of him. needless to say my jaw dropped at first in disbelief, then I thought of the source and started laughing. These people REALLY have no clue.
 
in steeper declines than are Gray and Humpback, and probably, Sperm Whales.....the point being since they aren't "Great Whales" they are okay to kill under the auspices of "Scientific Whaling".....Meinke stocks have delined over 40% from 1980 estimates.....proof that Whaling isn't "sustainable"......

And what is "healthy population" anyway? Pre Whaling numbers? None of the "Great Whales" are at those numbers and the lesser whales have declined as a result of attention being turned to them... "I've seen alot of them" numbers?..... what number is enough to allow harvest.....theone that the IWC assigns or the one that the Japanese and the Russians and the Scandanavian Nations claim?

Steve
 
yeah im not to happy with trappers i had a guy trap the beaver in my lake upstate after i told him he wasn't allowed on the property and wasn't allowed to trap its posted...i would like to trap him and his wife and see how he likes it went i stuff her beaver....
 
I don't believe the 40% numbers are what they are. Meaning some of the 40% is caused by the 1980's and later estimations being way off and I think they admit that to some extent since the IWC now says "The Commission is unable to to provide reliable estimates at the present time." I really don't follow the plight of whales closely so this is from memory and reading a little today.

Pre modern whaling numbers are not what I would use to determine if sustainable harvest is warranted. If we did that then duck hunting in north america could never happen. Aren't historic estimates for many species two or three times higher then they are now? I think I might have read that on Madduck.

I'm not really saying that I think you are wrong. If Minkes are declining at that rate then the hunting should stop. I have no problem with that. They have to keep the populations stable or growing. There has to be a model to follow that allows some harvest when warranted. I know some countries are going to push it but too many people they are wrong only because they want to kill whales not because of any numbers.

Tim
 
yeah im not to happy with trappers i had a guy trap the beaver in my lake upstate after i told him he wasn't allowed on the property and wasn't allowed to trap its posted...i would like to trap him and his wife and see how he likes it went i stuff her beaver....
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Did you report him? That sounds like a trespassing thing not a trapping thing.

Tim
 
he was trespassing and he did get the beaver and we lost the pond for two years it was dry 20 acer pond and now theres a new fam of beavers and it filled back up...... no i didnt report him his time will come theres a time and a place for every one
 
Sometimes this forum takes an ugly turn and moves away from the beauty of the sport we love. I thought long and hard about how to add my two cents to this, but just can't seem to want to put a dog in this fight. I'll just move on to another thread. dc
 
posts like this provide more information about "who we are and why we do it" than do the "pretty ones" that you, and others, appreciate so much....they're certainly tougher to read, and digest, and they don't leave you with the "how pretty", "how sweet", feeling that the the preferred ones do and thats a fact, but they do teach us somethng about each other...

Seriously we all know that we "like" sunrises and decoying ducks and the sound of waves on a cobbled beach....what we don't know from those posts is what people think about the life of the animals that they are killing, or the ones that they aren't, what they "value" and what to that particular person is of no value......and to me, and to at least a few others here, thats even more important than the next pretty sunrise picture.....

Not all the women in the World are "gorgeous" just like not all that posts on this site will be "feel good"....I for one am glad its that way.......and for those that don't like posts of this nature I'll just state the obvious, that being that once they see it taking a turn that they think will "harsh their mellow" then they should just stop opening the thread cause last time I checked the stickies I didn't see one that said that it was rule of the site that every person had to read every post.....

Steve
 
Steve, I didn't say I wanted to talk about how shiny a dog's coat is or the sound of rain drops falling into the water. "Beauty" as it was used in the sentence should have meant the character, the strength, the heritage, and the greatness of waterfowling......NOT pretty sunrises and mystical fairy mornings. I didn't mention anything about "sweet" or "pretty". My comment is that sometimes when we decide to have long winded conversations about the killing of things, sometimes it needs to be pointed out that we have killed a horse too and the thread has run it's course. I was personally dissapointed by your additions during this thread. I can appreciate your passion towards the subject, but it became too much for me when it got right down to name calling and all of the "have you ever /even comments". Even your last comment to me in the previous thread comes off as condescending and arrogant. You basically told the readers that if you don't like what you read or agree with us......go somehwere else. I have never witnessed a good example of suppressed ideas and conversation being good for the whole. I feel many people lurk in the shadows of this site, afraid to make statements for which they might be heckled and slammed. I'm sure that they have a lot to offer, not everyone can be an extravert like myself. dc
 
"don't read a thread that bothers you" as saying "go somewhere else" then you mis'read my intention in saying that.....

Point was that when people read, and comment, "can't we please talk about ducks", then its obvious that "for them", the thread has run its course.....and at that point it makes more sense "for them" to just not to continue to "watch the train wreck" any longer.....that is ALL that I meant by that statement......

As to your other comments we all have different styles, different goals, when we post....and what is a "Dead horse" to some is a "much alive and kicking one" to another....

Steve
 
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