What size shotgun shells do you use?

Mark (mo) I'm confident you're telling us the truth, and the pictures do say it all. My question is this, why do manufacturers suggest 4 or larger for waterfowl. My proof is on the box of almost every brand. This advertisement has lead me to believe that larger is better when it comes to the size of shot...why do they do this? What's the science?

Also, I've never even seen steel shot in anything smaller than four shot.
 

Out of all the discussions that have swept this sight on shells...My two cents is best spoken by the individual shooters on this sight...When I used to work at Remington I went through several chokes, at least 4 per barrel to find a good pattern at 30 yards, to pattern my 300 ideal o/u...I shoot a skeet 1 and improved cylinder out of the barrels...

Since I bought the gun in 2000 I have been using nothing greater than 6s, 2 3/4" 1 oz @ 1450/1500 fps to hunt ducks...I may buy 2s and 4s when I can not find high brass 6s within the same speed...My hunting partner Steve McCullough gives me hell about this all the time...And I believe he can also back some of my BS with the fact I do put birds in the boat...But the caveat to my statements is that I patterned the gun in 6 loads...I do notice a difference when I shoot other loads that I haven't patterned...I also do not take shots beyond my comfortable range of 30 yards and less...I prefer the 20 yard or less shot and tend to let a lot of birds go that other hunters would crack a shot at and most often take the game...In diver hunting I wait till the last moment to shoot at distance of 15 yards or less and sometimes shoot 7 1/2 for this...In puddle duckn I set my spread to force them to land within my range...And most often move my position to be within that spot if they do not cooperate...If they do not, well their natural trip takes them further south...

My thought process is that shot string and number of pellets gives me an advantage since I am not a great shot...2s have a maximum 120 pellets per ounce, you most often get between 89 to 110 due to fillers...6s have roughly 300...7 1/4 400+...I am a swing through shooter...I let the string do its job...The methodology of what goes through my head when I arm the gun is 8, tail, swing through, and pull the trigger...The 8 being that I place the mid sight bead underneath the lead sight bead to make a figure 8...At that point I am down on my gun properly...Point at the tail and then swing through pulling the trigger as I swing through keeping the swing constant...

Now after all this BS of my thoughts the main thing I wanted to convey is that it really doesn't matter what anybody decides on shooting through your gun...The main thing is understanding the pattern and comfortable distance of shooter...Alot of money is wasted by hunters because of marketing hype...I can afford the various alloy loads on the market...But why spend $32 when I can spend $9 to $11 and get the same results...

Mark's awesome shot on that goose at 20 yards is still within the effective range of that load with leading shot strings to the head and upper body...And will repeatively hammer many birds at that distance...I'm a glad he posted those pictures...But I will say at ranges beyond that the load would be less effective due to ft/lbs lost no matter how well the shot is placed...Thus causing a shooter to want to move to a heavier load...

Keep those 6s cheap, supply and demand, supply and demand!

Regards,

Kristan
 
This is a great thread. But for me there is not one shell or size shot that is good in all situations and for that matter shotgun gauge size also.
All this talk about shells and shot size prompted me to take a friend out that just got a new Mossberg 935 12ga. He is new to water fowling and I ran him through the different chokes, shell and shot sizes. Not to mention different brand loads and distances from 15 yards out to 40 yards. Then we also shot with a 20 ga.
I come from the school of thought that you really need to get out and pattern your gun so you have a good understanding of what you are doing and trying to accomplish. That being said It was a good learning experience for my friend. He now knows what will work best for the shooting we do and knows what rounds will get the job done and most importantly why.
After this was done we moved to shooting clays. With his new understanding of how his gun works he made a vast improvement in his skills.

I strongly suggest if any of you guys have not patterned you guns you should get out and do so. It will improve you rate of success.
 
I bought one of the first Benelli SBE's 15 years ago - an H&K version. Shot 3 1/2 " shells for a couple of years and gradually started dropping back. That particular gun with a Briley IM choke, loves Winchester Supremes in 3" #3 shot. About 5 years ago I started to get away from the 12 ga and shot ducks with a 28 ga, 2 3/4" hand loads of Hevi-shot and would still if they weren't so darned expensive - that combo kills ducks as dead as they need to be. The past couple of years I shoot a 20 ga. SxS that really shoots well with Kent Fasteel, 3", 7/8 oz of #4 steel. That has been my go to gun and I rarely even pick up the 12 ga anymore. The key,as Phil Nowack just posted,is to "know your gun and what shell PATTERNS well in it". Every gun, every shell, and every choke pattern differently so without knowing what your gun is doing you're just winging it with your shells.
 
Yes and no Pat, the 7 1/2, 2 3/4, 1550 steel, they are low brass 7 1/2s...Was at Wal-Mart tonight...They were $8.49 a box...Remington makes a high brass but they are copper plated which is not legal in any state I hunt...They actually pattern wonderfully out of my gun...Decoying birds look like small pillow being opened in the air...But I will say they have limitations on distance of shot...If birds are not decoying...I switch down to 6s and even 4 or 2s...

Regards,

Kristan
 
Kristan

Not sure which copper plated shot you are referring to, but copper plating is approved by USFWS. Here is the approved list of non-toxic shot. http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/currentbirdissues/nontoxic.htm

I don't have much to add to the excellent advice here. Pattern your gun with the choke and load until you find a winning combination. I shoot 1550 FPS 2 3/4 inch #6 steel for all dabbling ducks and I find the speed and pattern density works well for me. I shoot 3 inch 3s moving as fast as possible for divers because of the range and limited ability to get a strong swimming cripple.
 
Careful, only copper, tin...coated nontoxic shot is legal. "* Coatings of copper, nickel, tin, zinc, zinc chloride, and zinc chrome on approved nontoxic shot types also are approved". The key here is coated nontoxic shot. Copper coated lead dosent appear to be legal.
 
for you 2 3/4" 6's lovers Fiocchi made a shell that was high brass 2 3/4 at 1400fps in 6's. I have a couple boxes left and it is a killer load for LM, IC and SKT constrictions. After that I will be shooting Winchester field loaded 6's and 7's in 2 3/4 that is around 1275 fps or Fiocchi 3" 3's through a tight choke for windy days. Most importantly I will continue to shoot a lot in the off season again.
 
I have shot 3.5 shells. I do beleave they give you a small edge. The recoil is a lot harder. They add speed if you pick the right combo. I think the 10 patterns better witha 3.5, than the 12 because of the bigger bore. You just have a longer shot string with the 12. If the gun knocks you down you arent shooting the right way. Your shooting form must be awful.
I dont shoot 3.5 shells very often but once you buy some you have to get rid of them some way. I have been working away at them mixing them in with the 3" shells.
You are obsessed because you are here. Deer hunting doesnt have the same appeal as it did in past years.
John
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If this is in reply to me winding up on my butt in the boat, I was shooting at a Buffle flying Mach 1 through the decoys. With the bird coming from left to right and my first shot is straight out 12 o'clock, or correct shooting form, by the time I swing and let the third shot fly I am standing perpendicular with the gun. I don't know about you but I don't have time to readjust my footing when birds blaze the decoys.
Click to expand...
 
OK! I'm totally covinced now and am going to buy a couple different types of ammo and pattern my 12 gauge. How many rounds of each type of ammo do you shoot to effectively know how it patterns? Should I start at 15-20 yards and then move the target back from there? I like to take longer shots and shoot effectively up to about 35 yards.So to take those longer shots i use an improved cylinder. Short of buying new tubes, isn't that a good tube for longer shots? Cuz i thought it was and it does seem to more accuarate than the modified on longer shots. I got a Remington 887 and thise are the two tubes it came with. Do you guys use aftermarket tubes or what comes with the gun? Sorry if these are stupid questions, the idea is new to me and i want to get the most i can out of it. Phil you often sound like a dick, don't worry about it. As long as you have advice, i can handle how its worded. Im a big boy.
Thanks guys,
Brian
 
IMHO if you have not put a thousand rounds down a gun in a non-hunting situation stick with one choke and shoot it a bunch. Changing shot shell sizes, dram eq. and chokes during season will not correct poor shooting behaviors. Correct those, learn how your gun shoots then start tweaking it with chokes, shot sizes, lengths, dram eq. etc... as you need for the conditions.
 
Brian, Are you totally messing with us now? IC for 35 + yard shots? or did I misread that? Your pattern with most any shell with IC @ 35 yards would have to be six feet across or bigger with holes in it that goose could fly through.... I would think..... For consistent longer shots most people tighten their choke....

I pattern mine at 20-25 yards... on a 4" piece of cardboard or paper... 5 shots was enough for me.... I shoot a factory modified choke out of my SBE. It is hell on birds at 10 or 15 yards... but they are dead... and out of a layout I would rather be DEAD or miss on the birds... it is no fun chasing a crippled old squaw all over Lake Michigan.
 
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Brian, If you are honestly missing birds, and you are shooting IC, and shooting at birds at 35 yards... a couple really simple option to fix it (mid season) The first would be get the birds closer and don't take the longer shots.... Second would be: put a tighter choke in your gun (modified maybe or IM at least). The third would be got to the skeet range... shoot 50-100 shells, just to see if your mechanics are right. I would sugest all three... but IF you are really shooting 35 yards+ Change your choke... you will be happier...
 
I'll second Phil's comments and add to it.
Seeing as you really have no idea what is going on with regard to patterns or shooting skills. I would suggest the following.
Go out with a roll of 36" heavy craft paper (similar to brown shopping bag paper) set up two pieces of wood upright that you can staple the paper to so you will have a 36" x 36" target spread across the wood uprights.
Mark off your yardage, start at 15 yards take a shot, mark the paper with manufacturers brand, shell size, shot size distance and what choke, repeat as you move farther out from target.
Next, repeat with the next brand or shot size and so and so forth.
This will give you a clear understanding of how your gun works and what loads are best for you.
Now go out and shoot some clays.
Even if you are mid season I would suggest spending some time with your gun getting to know it.
It will be time well spent.
Patterning your shotgun is like sighting in your rifle. You would'nt go out hunting with out going to the range to sight it in so why woul'nt you do the same with a shotgun.

Good luck
 
Brad,
Why do manufacturers suggest different sizes and make a 100 different loads. Simple, to sell shotgun shells.

Years of competitive shooting have taught me to match the choke and shot size to maximize the density and down range target breaking power of my pattern at a given range. Are 7's the answer to everyones shooting problems. Nope, not in a million years. The answer is don't listen to anyone including the manufacturers. FORM YOUR OWN OPINION.

KNOW YOUR LIMITATIONS, If you don't shoot targets over 35yds then don't let your ego get the best of you and take a shot at a bird at that range. I'm not comfortable with a 35yd+ crossing shot but feel confident with a straight overhead at that range. So if it means I go home without killing a duck because that was the only shot I had then so be it. I'd rather do that than cripple or wound a bird. I will not take a shot unless I'm 99%+ confident I can make the shot. Yep, it drives some of my hunting buddies crazy and I've taken a lot of ribbing for not shooting but I'm fine with that. Chances are I'll give more people a hard time for missing than they will of me for passing up a shot.
 
Brian,
use johns idea for the pattern testing but get a 4 foot wide roll of white plastic table cloth at wall mart or target. Cheap, folds up to nothing, and is a little more forgiving of the aiming of the shotgun. Shows the fliers better too.


Thanks Mark for filling in the details. I have shot differently since back in the day when you first started the smaller is better shot size topic on here.

If any one wants some scientific data you should track down the Tom Roster study for the CONCEP program.


They killed a pile of stuff and then did xray and dissection to determine cause of death. All shots were ranged with a laser and may were videoed.


Deff. put a lot of myths to bed re plain missing vs what a pellet could actually do.
 
What i had originally thought about using was the resin paper that carpenters put on the floor when they mud the drywall. Its about 3-1/2' wide and it comes in rolls so i can cut any length i want. I see the guys who use it on a regular basis so i know i can get that for free...... do you think that is wide enough or do i need something wider? I like the carpet idea and i got the remnants to do it but you got me second guessing the resin paper i want to use.
 
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