My base training experience prior getting into labrador training and trialing was three years working with a group of amatuer field trian competitors who ran field springers. Two of them were quite successful, competing in both the ammature and professional ranks. When I asked Mark S. what he dogs sell for, he said a puppy would cost $2,500 to 3.000, based on its pedigree. This was in the mid-1980s, when a good labrador retriever sold sold for far less.
Bob, you sketch out a real-world example of simple supply and demand in operation. I would also include Wildrose Kennels in its first decade with your assessment of high priced puppy mills. But, to be honest with you, you state your conclusion without actually mentioning your assessment criteria beyond dog price and "Orvis Endorsement". Were you looking for a puppy that was EIC and PRA clear, as well as OFA good or better? Were you looking at pedigree listings? I am truly curious.
We can "chew" the whole dog price issue forever. I opt to divide the total cost of a dog by their potential years of service, having had one ten year "mistake".
Robert Milner sold Wildrose Kennels to Stewart, watched him apply the model you partially outline quite successfully, and followed suit by founding Duck Hill Kennels to replicate it. We were on a waiting list for a yellow male. My first(Dugan) full UK labrador's sire was one of his first Irish imported dogs. He is the yellow labrador on the timber shooting treestand in the Avery commercial. I don't dispute your point. However,from your statements, am I to conclude that leveraging the pricepoint of a dog is unique to UK line labradors? As you also stated, you still have to do your homework well for a puppy choice in either labrador variety "arm". What I have come to appreciate most about the UK Labrador breeding philosophy practice is that their practice breeds out what we have trained out in our domestic labrador retriever lines for decades. I domestic labradors, a process I contend has served to broaden the application of e-collar use by both inclination and necessity. Once I thought that heritability of behavioral traits was so much B.S. That said, I made a point of looking at some UK variety lab. kennels in Wisconsin. I was quite impressed. Actually, I was completely won over.
Then, while watching a documentary that attempted to trace not only the timeline from wolves to domestication of dogs, but where this likely first occurred via genetic analysis, I heard the researchers, outline that this occurred at a far greater pace (shorter time interval) than they expected via natural selection operating. They concluded that the most behaviorally pliant wolf pack scavengers were the core subset at the split between domestic canine breeds and wolves. This thesis was repeatedly supported by their data, essentially supporting the argument that canine behavioral traits do have a genetics driven basis.
I maintain that enthusiasm can be built-in, not layered on. Consequently, training-in an "on/off "switch is uneeded
One point I would ask you to note within all my comments, I have never advocated the kennel I purchase my UK dogs from. Why? It is my course of action...not much of a "herd" guy, nor do I advocate my choice as a universal approach. I am in the camp that also contends that a labrador retriever should actually look like the breed standard.
Mr. Hillman, as you state, is quite successful. I am assuming your criteria to gauge his success is the volume of $150 a pop DVDs he has sold, since you discount the overall value of field trials. The methods he uses are not new, or novel,or revolutionary. ANY trainer at his level, worth her or his "salt" should be doing everything possible to not introduce or reinforce untoward behaviors by standardizing how they approach an individual dog's training. I don't think e-collars are or should be a routine tool in retriever training, particularly for the average person training his or her dog. Since I firmly hold that perspective, whether he does a wonderful job teaching their application is superfluous; he is still advocating use of a device that, from my perspective and observation only teaches a dog to manifest the e-collar ingrained behavior(s) while it or a dummy collar are on the dog. Your comments about Milner's operation can also be appropriately applied to Mr. Hillman's enterprise, they are extensively "hyped" via endorsements and far more expense than the handful of training articles, experience born from practice and application and a copies of Richard Wolter's initial book, as well as Vic Barlows. I would estimate my "program" coast at about $60, with most of it in a pigeon trap/cage. Again, no $150 each Hillman DVDs, no e-collar, no field trial participation.
I encourage any e-collar user to remove it and continue to train their dog for HALF the interval they have had it in use as a training tool. Now, assess the dog's behavior in the filed, truck, and kennel.
As I stated, a path I have no interest in...
