Skin on frame deck construction

[Calaam]

Hello I am new to the forum. I’ve only just started looking through the many discussions and I already need to thank everyone for all the information that has been accumulated over the years, I am glad to have found you guys. I think my next build will not feel as helpless as the last one was due to the amount of information on here!

Anyway, I wanted to get some builder opinions on skin on frame construction. I know very well that skin on frame boats make usable duck boats because that is what I hunt in here in Florida, but I have also never hunted out of anything else (except a few times out of a clunky aluminum Jon boat that was a lot more work to launch and use), so I wanted some opinions.

I have two issues with my own boat, first is that it is hard to hide because of the hull design which has a good amount of flare and freeboard. I haven’t been able to figure out a good way to brush it using the standard florida method of strapping palm fronds along the walls, because they just flare out totally open.

I recently discovered sneakboxes and it seems like most seaworthy ones would have the same issue, but they’re constructed with a sloping foredeck.

Do you guys think there would be any disadvantage to building the deck out of oak ribs and skinning it just like a skin on frame kayak? How much weight actually sits on the deck of a sneakbox when it’s in use with full grass, decoys, etc?

 

[Calaam]

Here is a pic of my boat. You can see how the V shape of the hull caused the palm fronds to flare open, so I’m not very hidden. The boat would benefit from some other method of brushing in, that’s why I’m thinking a deck of some kind could be made.

Or maybe I should just build/buy a proper sneakbox.

 

[Geoff Pike]

I'm fascinated with skin on frame boats, having done a couple kayaks and a rowing boat that is similar to yours. Couple of thoughts regarding duck boats made that way. Dave Gentry has plans for a Melonseed on his site. It's a sailing variety but could be adapted I believe. A conversation with him a couple years ago revealed he was thinking about a Barnegat as well. Might be worth a look.
I think a Kara layout boat could be adapted to skin on frame as well without too much effort. I've done a bunch of thinking about it, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Would a dodger of some kind attach easily to your gunnels, giving you a slanted in profile help? With the beautiful job you did on that boat, you should be able to whip one right out!

 

[RM Anderson]

Calaam,
Welcome to the forum. I am new here like you and have followed many discussions like you have. I like skin on frame; it is a very cool method of construction. As much as I love building boats, I am a hunter first and foremost. These little sneakboats are deadly effective and I build them for that reason. I see no reason why you couldn't build a sneakboat skin on frame. RM

 

[Calaam]

The boat I built is a Dave Gentry Shenandoah Whitehall. I modified it as far as the seats, transom thickness to take a 2HP, and some other things, but the hull shape itself is his design. The Whitehall was supposedly used as a harbor taxi in New York, so it has a pretty seaworthy hull that is double ended at the water line. I have been very happy with it. I will check if Dave ever made plans available for a Barnegat, I wasn’t aware that he was working on some.

 

[Calaam]

I'm fascinated with skin on frame boats, having done a couple kayaks and a rowing boat that is similar to yours. Couple of thoughts regarding duck boats made that way. Dave Gentry has plans for a Melonseed on his site. It's a sailing variety but could be adapted I believe. A conversation with him a couple years ago revealed he was thinking about a Barnegat as well. Might be worth a look.
I think a Kara layout boat could be adapted to skin on frame as well without too much effort. I've done a bunch of thinking about it, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Would a dodger of some kind attach easily to your gunnels, giving you a slanted in profile help? With the beautiful job you did on that boat, you should be able to whip one right out!

I might like to try a dodger, I will look through the forum to find some build examples. My boat is 13 feet long, so I don’t know if a dodger would hide well enough without help from a brushed in deck. I will do some thinking. A dodger might take away less storage space than a deck, so it might be worth it to just use a dodger.

 

[RM Anderson]

Calaam, Why not a detachable skin on frame dodger? RM

 

[Calaam]

Calaam, Why not a detachable skin on frame dodger? RM

That’s what I’m thinking as well with oak ribs or whatever. It wouldn’t really make sense to build a solid deck on a skinned hull. What are some things to consider when designing a dodger other than obviously being sloped? If it’s skin on frame, it will be rigid enough to trailer I think, but should dodgers be removed when underway?

 

[RM Anderson]

Calaaam, When towing, I think you would be OK if the point of the dodger is facing forward. Having said that, I drive 55 mph with duck boat in tow (small trailer wheels). Oak is much stronger than say aluminum tubing so I built mine to fold down on long trips. Really all you need is attachment points for grassing your blind in. On canvas dodgers many including myself use polyester or nylon straps tacked at about four inch intervals. RM

 

[Calaam]

Calaaam, When towing, I think you would be OK if the point of the dodger is facing forward. Having said that, I drive 55 mph with duck boat in tow (small trailer wheels). Oak is much stronger than say aluminum tubing so I built mine to fold down on long trips. Really all you need is attachment points for grassing your blind in. On canvas dodgers many including myself use polyester or nylon straps tacked at about four inch intervals. RM

I think the dodger will be an issue, because I usually just put the boat in the bed of my truck with the motor laying next to it. The complete hull only weighs 70 lbs, so I never bothered with a trailer. I will need to make the dodger removable like you suggested before. Or I could buy a trailer.

 

[RM Anderson]

Calaam,
I don't really know if this would work but I thought I would throw it out there. You have an absolutely beautiful boat and probably don't want to make permanent changes. After giving it more thought I think I would track down a capable individual to sew you a canvas deck with integral cockpot and grassing straps that attaches with snaps to your gunnel. Sitting on the bottom of the boat leaning against a thwart you would be well hidden. Seventy pounds for a hull weight is quite enviable so why make it heavier than you have to. When I was into white water canoeing I did the same thing, except the purpose was to keep water out.
RM

 

[HenryHawthorne]

Calaam,
I don't really know if this would work but I thought I would throw it out there. You have an absolutely beautiful boat and probably don't want to make permanent changes. After giving it more thought I think I would track down a capable individual to sew you a canvas deck with integral cockpot and grassing straps that attaches with snaps to your gunnel. Sitting on the bottom of the boat leaning against a thwart you would be well hidden. Seventy pounds for a hull weight is quite enviable so why make it heavier than you have to. When I was into white water canoeing I did the same thing, except the purpose was to keep water out.
RM

That's what I'd do, too, I think. Or even a roll up cockpit cover as @Steve Sanford has shown on his sneakboats.

 

[Tony hall]

I would think you could make a wooden toggle that could drop in the slots in rub rails and remove it for travel? If you did go the skin on frame dodger.

Or I think snap on dodger with steam bent hoops would work great too, and fit the boat and be light .
Tony

 

[Calaam]

You guys are making me think of some hybrid between a canoe spray skirt and a dodger. Like a snap on spray skirt but with a couple hoops or kick stand/toggle to prop it up in the middle.

 

[Steve Sanford]

Here is a pic of my boat. You can see how the V shape of the hull caused the palm fronds to flare open, so I’m not very hidden. The boat would benefit from some other method of brushing in, that’s why I’m thinking a deck of some kind could be made.

Or maybe I should just build/buy a proper sneakbox.

Calaam~

Gorgeous vessel! Your plight is similar to that faced by those who hunt from canoes. I solved it this way - with my Sweet Gherkin. Notice how I kept the aft coaming flush with the deck - so I can sit on the deck whilst paddling.

The sharp-eyed viewer will note that I put a hole througfh the foredeck - and a step below - to support a small sailing rig. I never did make one. But, this vessel paddles beautifully.



I molded the hull off a 13-foot Grumman (aluminum, of course). I do not recall which wood I used for the deck framing - but it would have been something lighter than Oak. I am guessing I used treated lumber for the inwales. The deck beams and carlins could be 1/2-inch AC plywood. (She's up in my loft - so too hot yesterday and today to clamber up there and peek inside....)

The rubrails, thatch rails and coamings were all of White Pine - to save weight. Atlantic White Cedar would be a good choice as well.



I decked the boat with 1/4-inch AC plywood - and covered that with 6-ounce cloth set in epoxy.

There is more info on my site: https://stevenjaysanford.com/sweet-gherkin/

I have never built or owned a skin-on-frame boat. However, I have used fabric decks for a long time now - on my gunning coffins. The canvas (Sunbrella or Cordova) is fitted to the perimeter and stretched over a single bow.

I use 2 rows of shock cord for hiding her - lashing bundles of Salt Hay to both rows every few inches.



My full build is at: https://stevenjaysanford.com/sanford-gunning-box/

I put rigid (plywood + 'glass) decks on Sweet Gherkin - and all of my other gunning vessels - because I may need to sit on them - or even stand on my larger craft - occasionally. However, with a 13-footer, I imagine this is rare - so your skin-on-frame sounds like a good solution. Rows of shock cord or polyester webbing could provide a nice light way to attach palm fronds or other hiding vegetation.

BTW: Being an incurable (and insufferable) fussbudget about terminology - and a native Long Islander - I am concerned about the use of "Barnegat/Sneakbox" in this thread. There are many examples of traditional duckboats that are decked over and include modest cockpits for the gunner. Although I am an "Atlantic Tidewater" guy - I do cherish the classic midwestern duckboat:



I have a Dan Kidney & Son skiff in my loft - alongside Sweet Gherkin.

Hope this helps!

SJS

 

[Calaam]

Thanks, Steve. The coffin cover is pretty much what I was envisioning after all the suggestions from everyone, it’s good to see a well built example.

I will start by making some drawings based on these ideas that match my boat.

 

[Calaam]

BTW: Being an incurable (and insufferable) fussbudget about terminology - and a native Long Islander - I am concerned about the use of "Barnegat/Sneakbox" in this thread. There are many examples of traditional duckboats that are decked over and include modest cockpits for the gunner.

Haha yes, the terminology is probably not correct, but the inspiration was from the sneakbox. Although my boat won’t be a genuine BBSB no matter what I cover it with, it’ll be some kind of gunning rig.

Even now before adding any cover, the boat looks like I decided half way through to make a canoe instead. It has slightly less rocker than it’s design called for and cane seats like you would expect on an old town.

 

[Richard Lathrop]

I would be sure you can exit the boat quickly in case of accidental capsize. Just a concern I have with narrow boats.

There are a couple skin on frame boat designs for inspiration in the resources section.

Rick Lathrop

 

[Calaam]

The boat is 46” wide and has good secondary stability. I can almost sit on the gunnel without taking on water, so I don’t think it’s particularly dangerous. I stand and paddle it with a SUP style paddle. But yes, I will make sure not to trap myself in the boat with the new dodger/skirt.

I searched for “skin” and some other phrases in the resources search, but it didn’t get any results. Anyway, I already built the boat. Are you aware of any skin boats with decks/covers/coamings in the resources?

Thanks!

 

[RM Anderson]

Your plight is similar to that faced by those who hunt from canoes. I solved it this way - with my Sweet Gherkin. Notice how I kept the aft coaming flush with the deck - so I can sit on the deck whilst paddling.

Steve,
Awhile back I purchased plans and station molds for a Bear Mountain Freedom 15 ft wood strip canoe. My plan is to reduce the length by at least a foot and add a deck and coaming similar to your Sweet Gherkin. I am currently scouring Menards every six months for clear cedar. My belief is such a boat will allow access to even the most remote duck infested waters. Thank you for the inspiration as it was the photo of your delightful little craft that inspired me to build my own. RM