Change To Federal Mallard Pop Goal and Impact on Seasons

I’ll note that was stunned by the density of blinds and the rate of use in western Tennessee. Wow. I don’t know how you manage any resources under that kind of pressure
 
Carl said:
I’ll note that was stunned by the density of blinds and the rate of use in western Tennessee. Wow. I don’t know how you manage any resources under that kind of pressure
Click to expand...
My sense is that once you have that level of pressure on public resources, there is no option but some kind of mechanism to manage it. There are a lot of models out there for how to do that in ways that don't result in either chaos or exclusive access. To name a few--none of which are perfect--take a look at how Quebec manages their ZECS and Crown Reserve lands for salmon and trout fishing on rivers; pre-season permit lotteries or draws for big game hunting that happen months or years in advance for big game; permit lotteries for boating trips on the Grand Canyon or other heavily used rivers. One model I have taken advantage of is how Yellowstone National Park does in-advance applications for backcountry campsites. If you want to get a permit for the most popular sites, you put in many months in advance and hope to draw your preferred sites; if you don't draw them you usually get a permit for your second, third or fourth choice. They also hold a fraction of sites in every high use area open for walk-in permits that you can get at the office the day before your trip. So, for example, if I didn't get lucky and get one of the handful of hike-in campsites I wanted next to Slough Creek, I would get a permit to site somewhere else. And when I showed up to check-in, I could pick up a site at Slough or some other high demand spot either because they'd held some of those sites or walk-ins or because I could fit in where there was a cancellation. It's a bit of a bureaucratic hassle and there is some uncertainty about which sites I will get, but if I've got to spend 4 nights on the lower Yellowstone instead of Slough Creek, I'm still getting a fantastic trip that's equally accessible to broke college kids and the folks paying outfitters $500/day or more for a deluxe horse pack trip.
 
Eric Patterson said:
"when did AHM last make a change or recommendation on their stance with our duck populations? I understand the point of why they exist, I don’t believe the AHM is actually living up to their purpose"
Click to expand...

I assume it was AHM that took us from 1 black duck to 2 here on the Atlantic. As a hunter who sees at least 10 times as many black ducks on my coastal hunts as I do mallards, and often hunts dawn or sundown on snotty days with fog and rain in low light, that was a game changer. In the old days, we might as well have quit hunting once we had our one black duck in the bag, because the risk of misidentifying a hen mallard as a black duck made us very hesitant to shoot at anything we could not 100% ID. I spent a lot of days birdwatching black ducks and occasional mallards in the decoys without ever taking a second shot.
 
Careful with the quote there Jeff. I never said that. :eek: :) That was a quote from some unnamed person on IG I used to illustrate the mistrust of AHM. Page 25 of the 2023 report I posted a link to at the start of this thread covers AHM and black ducks for the Atlantic Flyway.
 
Last edited:
Well, I remember the 30 days seasons and three daily bird limit. And then the point system along with steel shot. One hen mallard, closure on Canvasbacks and one Black Duck. None of this was perfect but at least they were trying to give us an opportunity to keep hunting every season. I appreciate that. We should be thankful for the science and AHM.

RVZ
 
Rod VanZile said:
Well, I remember the 30 days seasons and three daily bird limit. And then the point system along with steel shot. One hen mallard, closure on Canvasbacks and one Black Duck. None of this was perfect but at least they were trying to give us an opportunity to keep hunting every season. I appreciate that. We should be thankful for the science and AHM.

RVZ
Click to expand...

Mr. VanZile,

I hear thee and there were well over a million waterfowl hunters then. We adapted and continued doing what we love to do as in "Suck It Up and Deal with it". The folks not happy today, Spoiled Rotten comes to mind. As for science it's kept me alive in many ways as well as the hunting & fishing that we enjoy.

"Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein


Best regards
Vince
 
I believe that many or most of those blinds are on private lands. Which makes it even trickier.
 
Jeff Reardon said:
My sense is that once you have that level of pressure on public resources, there is no option but some kind of mechanism to manage it. There are a lot of models out there for how to do that in ways that don't result in either chaos or exclusive access. To name a few--none of which are perfect--take a look at how Quebec manages their ZECS and Crown Reserve lands for salmon and trout fishing on rivers; pre-season permit lotteries or draws for big game hunting that happen months or years in advance for big game; permit lotteries for boating trips on the Grand Canyon or other heavily used rivers. One model I have taken advantage of is how Yellowstone National Park does in-advance applications for backcountry campsites. If you want to get a permit for the most popular sites, you put in many months in advance and hope to draw your preferred sites; if you don't draw them you usually get a permit for your second, third or fourth choice. They also hold a fraction of sites in every high use area open for walk-in permits that you can get at the office the day before your trip. So, for example, if I didn't get lucky and get one of the handful of hike-in campsites I wanted next to Slough Creek, I would get a permit to site somewhere else. And when I showed up to check-in, I could pick up a site at Slough or some other high demand spot either because they'd held some of those sites or walk-ins or because I could fit in where there was a cancellation. It's a bit of a bureaucratic hassle and there is some uncertainty about which sites I will get, but if I've got to spend 4 nights on the lower Yellowstone instead of Slough Creek, I'm still getting a fantastic trip that's equally accessible to broke college kids and the folks paying outfitters $500/day or more for a deluxe horse pack trip.Looking for the best free online slots in Canada? Visit https://freeslotshub.com/ca/ to play thousands of demo slot games instantly-no download, no registration, and no deposit required. Discover classic favorites, new releases, progressive jackpots, and expert guides, all in one place for unlimited free entertainment.
Click to expand...
That seems like a pretty reasonable approach. No system is perfect, but a mix of advance lotteries and some first-come permits gives people a fair shot while keeping public access open. I'd take that over overcrowding or access going only to whoever has the most money.
 
As a new duck hunter, the "GoodOle Days", mean little as I have nothing to compare my experience. However, I do have some observations to share. First, the birds we are hunting are clearly not dumb. In the pre dawn hour before legal shooting, the ducks are quite active. The amount of ducks that I see one minute after legal shooting is significantly less. Secondly, the ducks where I hunt are very secretive and never loaf in any pond that can be seen from a road. Third, just about every duck I kill are locals because the season usually closes before we see any migration. My final observation is that relying on Pittman Robertson dollars to sustain waterfowl is not enough. If you hunt ducks or call yourself a hunter, you need to give back by joining a conservation organization of your choice.
RM
 
Last edited:
CRP Grasslands is killing bird numbers too. This program is intended to be a “cheaper” CRP but instead of enrolling acres into better conservation, producers are enrolling their existing rangeland and cashing checks. I don’t fault them, but this program is approaching 50% of CRP acres nationwide. As that number climbs, it will be favored because it’s cheaper, even though it fails to deliver the conservation benefits of traditional CRP.
 
Michael McCord1 said:
CRP Grasslands is killing bird numbers too. This program is intended to be a “cheaper” CRP but instead of enrolling acres into better conservation, producers are enrolling their existing rangeland and cashing checks. I don’t fault them, but this program is approaching 50% of CRP acres nationwide. As that number climbs, it will be favored because it’s cheaper, even though it fails to deliver the conservation benefits of traditional CRP.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Last year we hunted Nebraska and farmers there are paid to leave stubble until the following spring and allow walk in hunting. Complete waste of money.
RM
 
Eric Patterson said:
While reading Adaptive Harvest Management documents on the USF&WS page I stumbled across something that surprised me and I'd love to hear an explanation. The population goal of 8.5 million mallards when determining seasons was dropped in the 2023 report calculations. The charts below show the regulatory strategies for 2022 and 2023. Note the large shift in thresholds where the different seasons (Liberal, Moderate, Restricted, Closed) kick in. I have to assume the removal of the 8.5 million goal is the reason for this shift. Someone set me straight if this is not the reason. But this begs the questions 1) why was the goal dropped, and is harvest even less important today than thought just a few years ago?

View attachment 55083

View attachment 55084



Click to expand...
Going back to this original question...

Looks like they moved the goal posts between 2022 and 2023. Below the figures, in 2022, it states "Canadian Ponds in Millions", but in 2023, it states "Total Ponds in Millions".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top