Dog refusing to retrieve with e collar on??

J

Jay H

Active member
I introduced my dog to the e collar today just like the dvd included instructed me to do. I found her setting which is a 1. I let her wonder away from me and gave her the here command. Once she didnt listen i tapped the button, she then came right back to the heel position. I did that excercise probably 10 more times never having to tap her again. I then took her dummy tossed it like we do every day and she will run half way and come back to a heel. She is very cautious from leaving me. I walk her to the dummy she will pick it up and walk back with me to our original location. If i only throw it 10 feet she will go five and stop and come back, what do i do to get her back to retreiving?
 
most collars say have the dog live with the collar for 2 weeks before you "use" it. let the dog play with collar on... Kodi wags his tail when he sees the collar....because he associates it with fun....
 
Jay, stop what you are doing. Research one of the many collar conditioning programs and read and follow on. I have always introduced the collar along with corrections the dog already understood ie ear pinch on fetch, leash check on heel etc. Your collar is simply another tool, but you need to be careful in your timing and constent in training. If there is any confusion, hitting the button will cause freezing and what gives the collar a bad reputation. Used properly, the collar is like power steering.
 
This is one of the issues about training programs. They can't provide all the details to handle every dog out there. Too much averaging and generalizations making the dogs at the fringes of "normal" hard to teach with the program.

The key will be time and fun for her.

She sounds like she is mild mannered and a little timid - not the huge amount of drive that dogs use to overcome their personal issues.

As you have noticed you have now taught her that when she goes away from you she gets some pain and she does not have enough drive to retrieve through what she has learned. You will now have to teach her to retrieve again.

Keep the collar on her and do training and fun bumpers, but don't hit the button. It may take a couple of days for her to get back into the fun for her part of the game. You might even have to spend a couple of weeks of fun training to get her back on her game. Make putting on the collar the first step to the game and eventually she will see its presence as a trigger to the good stuff thats coming.

I think in Evan Grahams system he has a drill where you walk in long sweeping lines and toss bumpers to each side as you go. This might be a drill that will get her thinking about something else other than getting shocked for getting too far away.

My dog hated the collar for a few days, but then she learned that when the collar is going on its going to get really fun right then and there. She has a huge amount of drive even though during force fetch training by a pro he found her to be pretty soft when it comes to pressure. He had to stop FF on her so not to burn her out completely. She fetches good enough for a couch dog, but she would never earn points in a test event.
 
Interesting,
Your title dog refuses to retreve ect.
But from what you decribed, use used a e collar to train the dog to come back to you as soon as you hit the button.
Now to prevent getting zapped he is running back to you, this to me does not seem like a refusal.
Keep in mind the dog does not know whats going on.
 
Couple of thoughts, Jay. I assume this is the pup you picked up in mid-July? Six to eight month is ok to introduce the collar (better eight), but don't assume that it's the teaching tool. That's a mistake. It's a negative reinforcement for a pattern of consistent refusal to obey a command that's already been taught and is understood. I also wonder what convinced you that a collar had to be the next necessary step in the progression of your pup's development.

First of all, it sounds like you have used a command that is going to be used in the field when hunting in order to introduce the e-collar. Probably not a very good idea. Then you moved to retrieving in the same session that you used to introduce the collar - a not too pleasant correction which was fresh in her mind. "Come back to me NOW - Now go and fetch." (Teaching her to "Kennel" in a location that had little to do with where you normally do any type of field work would have probably been a better choice, but that's not the case).
Finally, you might want to evaluate what she has been taught consistently and thoroughly to date without the collar (only "heel" was mentioned). Have you worked with her until she is reliable complying with them, say 80% of the time. If she doesn't understand the commands at that level, I'd suggest that you put the collar away until she does.?

Sounds like you expected too much too soon and blew through "collar conditioning" much too fast- especially on the day you spoke of, and you might be looking at the collar as a "remote. " I'd put the electronics away for a month and go back to a couple of weeks of separating short obedience sessions (Sit-Stay-Come-Heel) and retrieving play to start that month.
 
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I guess my question is why you thought you need the collar to begin with?
 
Jay,

Slow down your moving to fast with the e-Collar. You must teach basic obedience first.
Only then do you introduce the e-collar to reinforce the known command. You DO NOT
teach commands with the collar. Stop now before you create a bigger problem.
Get someone to help you out with your trainning.


Tom
 
I agree with Tom. Leave the collar on the pup and switch to a long line (25'i or so). Let pup go out to fetch and if she doesn't, reel her in a little and repeat the 'here' or 'come' command. By doing that, pup will get the idea that you want her to bring it to you. With the collar, pup can't readily make the association of fetching with bringing it to you with the correction for not finishing the job.
 
Hey guys thank you for the tips and suggestions. I should add a couple of things, rudy has been completely obediance trained she complis with basic obediance 90% of the time her biggest issue is and always has been the recall, "here". When i introduced the first thing of stimulation this morning she was on a 30 ft lead. I basiccly tapped it to get her attention. Rudy was a rough dog since she was a pup, she has challenged me every step of the way and we finally have a relationship where i am the leader. Rudy is a tough dog and was very suprised she even noticed the level 1 stimulation. Everything i have done with her has been about fun . She started to loosen up this afternoon with retreiving and seems to b back on track. I really think she just got curious more than anything.
 
I agree with the details in Bob's post.

However, Carl asked:
I guess my question is why you thought you need the collar to begin with?
Click to expand...

Me, too.....which prompts me to ask, did the intro the e-collar effort have anything to do trying to eliminate the issue of "keep away?" on retrieves?
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No, rudy has always come right back to me with retrieves its when she wasnt on a retrieve that she would sometimes ignore me
 
Don't introduce or use the e-collar until pup is doing sit, stay/whoa, here/come, and heel on the leash, and performing it to perfection. In terms of the fetching, it should be fun for the pup. They should enjoy it. Get the pup interested in retrieving again, but lay off the bumper for a while. Use a tennis ball or something else, but still give the commands. When I hit a wall with my britt, I always went back a few days, sometimes weeks, and started with the basics again. Keep it fun. Once pup is retrieving the bumper reliably again (you'll get there), toss one or two fun bumpers and heap on the praise.


Nate
 
She is doing retrieves i think she was startled, she has done everything perfect except she would always be distracted by birds, airplanes, etc
 
She sounds like softer dog, and she was not coming back to you from the orginal nick because of the command/nick, but because of unkown nick, she was looking for a safe place. Your dog came back to you on the fetch because she was unsure from a few moments before why she got nicked when she was away from you and didnt associate the command and nick together.

If you go down the path of an E collar, which can be and has been debated a zillion times, you need to understand and follow a plan so the dog doesnt get ruined. I fully support the use of Ecollars but also know there limitations and they are not for every dog or person. Simple collar condition on known commands that she follows 90% of the time is where you start. "Sit"-nick "down" nick what ever your commands are that she does well. then you have instilled an added level to the voice command that she already knew. I would agree with some of the others, get with a local trainer/club, there all over and watch and get pointers. I am not the biggest fan of DVD's or learning via book. Each dog is different and there is no one perfect way to train every dog, the key is to read the dog and understand what they may be thinking ut there are basics that need to be followed.
 
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Excellent Nate, this is one thing that is so important, when you get to a wall, take a few steps back. I do this all the time, even with older more advanced training like blood tracks this last summer. When she had a bad track, where the focus wasnt there or was difficult. the next week I reduced the ageing time/put more blood down, basically made it easier for her to a level where I knew she would be succesful. then built back up.
 
Sounds like you have it figured out.
Keep us posted on her progress.

It took 4 trips in the boat before my Coco remember what "dead bird" really meant. So I completely understand about new experiences distracting a dog.
 
Jay,

The distraction part is normal. We have to remember too, young dogs are like little kids for the first couple of years. The training process takes a lot of time and patience. I had to come to a stark realization one day that my young, energetic, and birdy dog probably wouldn't be polished until her third or fourth season. She turned three this past October and is finally starting to get it. All of the pieces are coming together for her, and me. We still have a bunch of work to do (starting force fetching this spring), but we are still having fun. The moment it stops being fun, it will become a problem for you and her.

Hang in there, you'll get it. It helps to find a local club too and get in with someone who has been where you are and has overcome the issue.


Best,
Nate
 
Jay, You got a lot of good advice so far. Just make sure you are in a place she is very comfortable and familiar with when you use the collar at first.
Good luck, sounds like you're on the right path, John
 
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