Saw this a few months back on the hunt quietly IG account....

[Steven Alexander]

This thread just goes to once again prove that noone hates a duck hunter like another duck hunter.

 

[RM Anderson]

This thread just goes to once again prove that noone hates a duck hunter like another duck hunter.

Steven,
Actually I think this thread is a result of when craftsmen stop building duck boats! I submit a better idea. Instead of endless bickering about unprofitable topics such as these what if every builder who was like minded built a duckboat for the conservation charity of their choosing?
A raffle for a duckboat is certainly more interesting than another shotgun.
RM

 

[tod osier]

Wow, I really apologize if that is how you took my comment. I have no impression that I've contributed more to society, and sincerely doubt that is true. My simple point was that I had choices to make and made them based on my priorities at the time. No excuses offered nor intended, just simple facts of (my) life.

I freely assigned your career's worth based on my evaluation of your last position at retirement. To serve the community is a great thing. I'm confident that you sacrificed for your community and it is better off for that. None of that is an issue for me. Everyone should try to do more for others.

I can recognize in myself the choices I've made and the consequences. I haven't ever used as an excuse that I could have made a bigger impact on society had I not hunted so much (although that is true I accept my choices), but you did use your career as an excuse for your inability to fully immerse yourself in the sporting world. I said it was your choice, but don't think that you get a pass because of it. I'm not going to change my definition of what it is to be a sportsman because you chose as you did and enjoy a tangential relationship with the sporting life I value.

Why do you care what I think about your and RMs use of guides? There are a lot of people that think the same thing, they are just too polite to point it out. If I'm that much of a crackpot and that far off the mark why wouldn't I be written off?

You seem to think I hate guides. I have great dislike for how they often treat a shared resource, but guides themselves no so much, especially since most are just cogs in the wheel. There are some epic guides that are real problems and guide associations are a big problem for good state and federal wildlife management.

I started this whole thing with with a statement that people that use guides are pussies and posers. Just an FYI, a big part of the hunting and fishing guides and makers think this. They view the sport or buyer as a piece of meat and a stupid one at that. I've had enough conversations with elite level guides or makers that confirm this, a disturbing number of conversations.

When I see some chump smiling with their guide holding the fish for them what do I see? I see the guide up early rigging rods and getting food rounded up before the sport is awake. I see the guide beating on their drift boat trailer with a hammer to get the fender straightened while the sport is still asleep. I see the guide picking wrappers out of the boat and washing mud out while the sport is asleep. I see the guide saying mend mend mend or set set set all day long. I've seen that before that is how you fish with a child. Chuck it there. Nice work that is a whopper. That a grown man pays someone to treat them like a child is beyond me. One fish caught under fair chase is worth a boat load of fish to me. I'd never hunt or fish again if that is how I had to do it.

Do as you wish, hit the easy button often and hard if that is your choice, but don't think that somehow those of us who sacrificed to live the life we want as we want have to pretend that hunting with a guide is more than a weak imitation of the life we work so hard to live. Don't like what I think don't listen to it, you will be in good company I can assure you. Click "ignore" on my profile, but don't pretend that there aren't those that think the same as I.

Well, that is sort of the point of building the boat, training the dog, etc., etc. And I have done all that (though certainly to a lesser extent than you and Tod). I grew up hunting that way, and early in my career when living in Mississippi (when I had more time and less funds) I absolutely did that in the Delta. Then got in with a group of older guys who had some land in the Delta and did the blind building/maintenance, scouting, and land prep part of it. I enjoyed all of it and learned a tremendous amount and look forward to doing more again - but never as much as the actual hunting (and fellowship) so when my time got more restricted I chose not to give up hunting but, in certain circumstances, to hire out scouting and property acquisition sp I could maximize my time hunting.
I've been making duck calls for nearly 30 years now, and can't remember the last duck I killed that wasn't called with my own call or one made by a friend/fellow call maker. I certainly don't think that makes me more of a hunter than someone who chooses to hunt with an off-the-shelf call orna callncustom-made for them by someoneelse. I just get enjoyment out of using my own calls. I suspect one day I'll follow William's and Don's lead and make efforts with my own decoys, too (or maybe my own flocking on purchased decoys). Will that make me more of a hunter? Hell no, but I'll get a kick out of it.

To be clear, I'm not offended nor is my dander up about any of this. The only reason I contributed is all of the hammering on guides (and, subsequently, people who use guides). The perception I'm getting from many comments is that all guides are glory hounds, resource-abusers, and in it for nothing but a buck - and that all who use guides are folks who just want a kill and a picture. Given what's available to see in social media and online and what goes around in some circles, I can understand that perception. I abhor the same folks you do that create that perception, and 100% share the viewpoint that they are not hunters.

But, to apply that to ALL guides and hunters is simply and factually incorrect - whether due to ignorance or, and I suspect the latter, being provocative (I have the same proclivity for argument sometimes so recognize that in myself).

Ultimately, this is simply not a competitive thing for me. I could care less whether someone thinks they are a better or bigger hunter than I am. I suspect most are. I hunt because I grew up in the culture and love getting out in nature (alone and with people) in pursuit of game. I fish because I grew up on the water and love being out there and learning more about my quarry. If I can accelerate and amplify my learning and enjoyment by hiring someone with more experience and expertise, I'm all for it. I look at guides much as, Tod, you look at college professors - and fortunately most of the guides I've ever known (granted, it isnt a huge sample) have been a lot like good professors/coaches.

 

[tod osier]

Steven,
Actually I think this thread is a result of when craftsmen stop building duck boats! I submit a better idea. Instead of endless bickering about unprofitable topics such as these what if every builder who was like minded built a duckboat for the conservation charity of their choosing?
A raffle for a duckboat is certainly more interesting than another shotgun.
RM

This is a discussion you entered on your own free will, remember that.

 

[RM Anderson]

This is a discussion you entered on your own free will, remember that.

Tod,
You are right, I'm out. This whole internet cowboy persona you have going on is your thing, not mine. I wish you all the best.
RM

Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

 

[HenryHawthorne]

Why do you care what I think about your and RMs use of guides?

Rest assured that I don't, Tod. My comments and reaction have nothing to do with your opinion about my use of guides, but a response to gross generalizations and labeling of a group of people that are just factually and demonstrably wrong. I have no problem with you believing what you say, but don't want others being mislead that your opinion is uncontested and, therefore, correct. It is not.

I've had quite similar conversations with guides as you've had - they detest the same behavior that all sportsmen detest. The guides I've used generally "fire" those clients and won't guide them again. They have plenty of clients that are sportsmen and who behave like them.

Our guide in S Texas is a great example. I've been hunting with him for about 10 years now. For the last 6-7 years, generally the only time I see him is for a beer the day we arrive and when we pay him at the end of the weekend. If we're going to a hard-to-find set of fields (buried deep within a large farm) or have other folks we don't know sharing a field or where there are specificthings we need to know like which gates to keep closed for cattle, etc, he may send someone on his team to lead the way. But we've gotten to know much of his area (maybe 50-60 sq miles) and a good number of his farmers, and he knows we can generally find our own way, that we'll not only clean up after ourselves but collect shells left by others before us, and that we won't abuse his and his farmers' resources. We're self-sufficient identifying flyways and patterns. We talk by phone in the evening and share scouting reports, particularly if we've seen new birds and he's had another group somewhere else that didn't have a good first day shoot. When our set of fields isn't holding birds (happens frequently as weather patterns change or birds get wary) we often go scout some of his other leases (with his appreciation) and collaboratively come up with a plan for the next day.

I get and respect that you don't care to hunt that way. No worries. Hammer on crap behaviors that none of us like and I'll join you. But I see no value to the name-calling and trolling behaviors.