some pics after the storm and an ID ???

D

Dick Sargeant

Well-known member
I had some time at the end of the day on Sunday to hunker down in some rocks at low tide and get some shots of the usual suspects and one duck that has me totally confused. I was also surprised by the relative calm after a big wind. Some day I am going to get close enough to one of these little rockets -

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This hen eider was taking it easy -

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this guy had a bad hair day -

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A few blacks and hybrid -

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And now for the big mystery incoming -

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and on the water -

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At first, I thought this was a hen widgeon, but the bill is wrong. Then I thought it might be a gadwall which I rarely see, but the head shape and other things do not look right.

My best guess is a Mallard/widgeon cross and a hen but I am not at all sure. Given the number of back duck/mallard hybrids that I see in this area, I wonder if mallards cross with widgeon or other ducks ??
sarge
 
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Very Cool! Mallards cross with just about anything.

From the DU website....

"Waterfowl crossbreed more often than any other family of birds. Scientists have recorded more than 400 hybrid combinations among waterfowl species. Mallards crossbreed with nearly 50 other species, and wood ducks hybridize with a surprising 26 other species."

So anything is possible. My first guess would be Mallard x Blackduck, but the head shape seams different. Could just be position or even the wind pushing the feathers into an unusual shape. I'm sure interested to hear what others think.

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Very Cool! Mallards cross with just about anything.

From the DU website....

"Waterfowl crossbreed more often than any other family of birds. Scientists have recorded more than 400 hybrid combinations among waterfowl species. Mallards crossbreed with nearly 50 other species, and wood ducks hybridize with a surprising 26 other species."

So anything is possible. My first guess would be Mallard x Blackduck, but the head shape seams different. Could just be position or even the wind pushing the feathers into an unusual shape. I'm sure interested to hear what others think.

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Thanks - I had no idea about how common the cross breading is. I think you are right but it will be interesting to see what others think. There are people on this forum with a fair amount of scientific education and others with lots of experience.
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Drake black / mallard cross, i have shot some like that here in NH. very nice pics!!, scott

Thanks Scott but we have a lot of black duck/mallard crosses here and none that I have seen had this head shape. As you can see there was no wind pushing the feathers up into that shape.

I have a mounted drake widgeon from a couple years back taken on buzzards bay and it had that shape head but you could be right for all I know.

sarge
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Dick et al~

Although I've seen lots of Black X Mallard hybrids with the top half of the face dark green like this one, the head shape and bill shape are those of a Wigeon - and, of course, it has that Wigeon mask and no Mallard/Black eyeline. Did you get to see the wings? The speculum showing suggests Wigeon; any chance there was some white in the wing coverts? I'd go with Black X Wigeon hybrid

More important, these are some great photos! I sometimes carve half-size flying birds - I think you just inspired to do a Butterball as my next one!

All the best,

SJS
 
Hello Dick, Excellent pictures I always look forward to your pictures thanks for posting. I have to go with Black X Mallard, Here on the hudson river we have a large wintering population of black & if we don't get one every year we see several every year. Joe
 
Beautiful shots, Dick. The head on that hybrid is unique. I sure did enjoy the angle of attack you got on that hybrid. Wonderful set of shots. The head did remind me of a gadwall, also. Like it has been mentioned already, mallards will cross with anything. The second most prolific cross breeder would be the wood duck drake.
By the way, you sure were on the right setting. That rocket is well done.
Al
 
Dick et al~

Although I've seen lots of Black X Mallard hybrids with the top half of the face dark green like this one, the head shape and bill shape are those of a Wigeon - and, of course, it has that Wigeon mask and no Mallard/Black eyeline. Did you get to see the wings? The speculum showing suggests Wigeon; any chance there was some white in the wing coverts? I'd go with Black X Wigeon hybrid

More important, these are some great photos! I sometimes carve half-size flying birds - I think you just inspired to do a Butterball as my next one!

All the best,

SJS

Hi Steve - Thanks, I was going to point you to a post by Gary March who got some spectacular Butterball in flight shots but they have been removed for some reason. He has some corkers and you might send him a pm.

Because this duck came in facing me, I was not able to see the full wing coverts but did see some white in the swimming shots.

Dick
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Hello Dick, Excellent pictures I always look forward to your pictures thanks for posting. I have to go with Black X Mallard, Here on the hudson river we have a large wintering population of black & if we don't get one every year we see several every year. Joe

Thanks Joe, I thought when I posted this that I had missed something simple but am learning that this hybrid deal can be very complicated and maybe even continue for a few breedings.
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Beautiful shots, Dick. The head on that hybrid is unique. I sure did enjoy the angle of attack you got on that hybrid. Wonderful set of shots. The head did remind me of a gadwall, also. Like it has been mentioned already, mallards will cross with anything. The second most prolific cross breeder would be the wood duck drake.
By the way, you sure were on the right setting. That rocket is well done.
Al

Thanks Al - I guess there is no way to be sure. I have to say that our black ducks must be facing possible decline due to this cross breeding and black ducks have been in trouble for decades.
The shape of this ducks head reminded me most of a widgeon while the breast feathers were most like a hen mallard but dark. Undersides of the wing totally white.
Dick
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I'm certainly no expert, and I've never had a widgeon in hand, so take this as nothing but another semi-informed (if that) opinion. That bird does not look like the black/mallard crosses I've handled. As others have mentioned, the head shape seems wrong, the white under the wings is unlike anything I've seen, the eyeline is missing. Also, the pattern of green on the head looks like the patches on a widgeon. We see drake black mallard crosses with no green and with various amounts of green on the head, but not that clear pattern that shows on this bird.

I'm guessing it's some kind of widgeon cross--but it's only a guess.

As an interesting side note, this was the first year in 5 that neither I nor anyone I hunt with took a black/mallard hybrid on Casco Bay in the late season. We often have 50% of more of our late season ducks down there that are hybrids, but we didn't get into them this year.
 
I'm certainly no expert, and I've never had a widgeon in hand, so take this as nothing but another semi-informed (if that) opinion. That bird does not look like the black/mallard crosses I've handled. As others have mentioned, the head shape seems wrong, the white under the wings is unlike anything I've seen, the eyeline is missing. Also, the pattern of green on the head looks like the patches on a widgeon. We see drake black mallard crosses with no green and with various amounts of green on the head, but not that clear pattern that shows on this bird.

I'm guessing it's some kind of widgeon cross--but it's only a guess.

As an interesting side note, this was the first year in 5 that neither I nor anyone I hunt with took a black/mallard hybrid on Casco Bay in the late season. We often have 50% of more of our late season ducks down there that are hybrids, but we didn't get into them this year.

Hi Jeff -

Glad to hear someone is seeing fewer black mallard hybrids !

I wonder if they have them way up north too in the maritimes or if the mallards are not up there ?

Dick
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Mallard / Black - that bill isn't anywhere close to a widgeon; nor is head shape.
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Hi Bob - I agree about the bill but the head shape has me wondering. There was a flat spot at about 10 o'clock on this duck and the head was chunky looking -

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Here's a drake widgeon mount -

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and here is a black on the water, can't tell if it was any hybrid green on top of head -

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Maybe this duck was black/mallard but I am not sure........
sarge
 
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for me ,maybe in 2 step .. mallard / black for sure ... and a year later ( because a malard/black can make baby again) with a gadwall, the shape of the head it really close to a gadwall, and this bird is a adult one..

The color it a malard / black but for the head shape , it a drake gadwall at 100%.
 
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