topic [10 gauge vrs 12 gauge in 3 1/2 inch shells]

Tom, get a hundred Cheddite primed hulls from Graff and sons, a bag of hv28 wads from BP and load up some 1 oz lead 6's for pheasant..even 7/8 oz will smack them. The ones Blake used on his first pheasant were some old Fiochi 1oz factory loads I had laying around. The pheasants are still edible after stoning them with it. I usually use my 7 1/2, 3/4oz target load on the pipsqueek farm pheasants.....
 
Have you cronographed the 17gr loads?I have found some BP wads that were too loose in the 20ga hulls,and wonder if the same exists in the 28ga hulls.That may account for the heavier powder charge.I'll mess with the loads in a AA case when I get that BP load book.I've had it with fiocchi hulls for now.I do have the steel load data from Worth's friend in WA.
 
Tom, just had a thought..have you looked closely at the extractor? It may be dinging them on the way closed and then ripping the rim when you eject. I'd check it to see if it is sticky. I had to stone a new one down a bit for replacement in my old 870...just takes a thumbnail to see if it moves freely. I don't think anything would be gleaned from an O/U since they push them out rather than jerk them out. I also don't think it's an overpressure load ....burr in the chamber maybe...a little flitz on a rag wrapped around a brush with a drill should polish it real nice. I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a 28 Wingmaster that is less than my 2nd car cost.
 
I used to use Unique powder for 7/8 28 Ga. reloads and Green dot for the 20 and Red dot for the 12. I had filthy barrells but also broke a lotta targets and shot a bunch of Doves and Pottidges with the 20 and 28 gauges.

One thing I learned to do to insure accurate lods with any bushing was to cycle the loader several times before I weighed the powder and shot charge.

Love the 28 Ga. and the 16 too.

best,
Harry
 
I respect your opinion, but I don't think they are an excuse to skybust. That's the person, not the gun, and a person who will skybust doesn't need an excuse.

I think they have been marketed that way, the same way the 3" 12-gauge was marketed a la Bo Whoop. We could go off on the tangent of marketing, the idea that we have to get there faster, have more, shoot farther, kill "deader", etc. in order to be "successful", but Shermie doesn't deserve that.

The choice of gun is just that, a choice. And honestly, my experience here in Arkansas has been that a person with a 10 has generally gone that route for a specific reason, where someone with a 3 1/2" 12 gauge more likely bought it, "because". Not saying better hunter, etc.; just saying that they know it's a gun with a specific purpose.
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Rick,

I probably could have phrased that better. In my experience, the guys that brought "big guns" to the blind, used the marketing hoopla of their guns as an excuse to shoot too soon and not let the birds work. Not that a big gun cannot be used 'properly', they just have a bad tendency to attract the wrong type of hunter. Nonsence aside, if I were to ever buy a gun with 3 1/2" chambers, I would definately go with the 10.

Chuck
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With a 28 ga.the skybusting is 35 yard and out.
 
I fell pray to a good deal on a sp10 last january I love it! I got it just in time for late season in Mn it seems to shoot really nice on geese but I hunt over decoys and like to keep it under 30 yards. I just shot turkey with it today using hand load lead 4s 57 yards( I'm a dork I lazered it after wards) dead turkey.
I used the sp 10 in cold weather not a no problems its not as cool as a Ithaca imo
but it it does have screw in chokes
Ammo in easy to find if you plan ahead a little I have been shooting federal premium 2s and BB last year i paid 19 a box I bought a used mec 600 and reload some lead with it for screwing around like my 2 1/4 oz of 7s for pigeons
I like the ten if for no other reason than the historical value as a waterfowl fire arm
 
Andy, no disrespect but reading your tag line I think with a 20 ga that'd be close to skybusting.
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That's not my tag line it just is real low on the page. I think you are right though. 25 yards could be max for a 20 ga. and a 28 ga.???

I really don't know how far out I have shot a bird. I do know what too far looks like though. I pass on birds on the fringe that are shootable all the time. I don't like to take chances. My ten gauge probably adds another 5-7 yards to my range compared to my 12, which comes in handy some days.
 
I completely agree. My trip out to Tenn. put me smack dab in skybusting country. Usually if a bird flies over South Carolina on the west side it still gets shot at on the east side. I laugh as I type this but I swear some people think they have rifles, and God forbid if they get lucky and take a bird down at 50 yards. They think that is their average range. It is good to see that you in reality know that the 10 ga isn't some miracle bazooka, but rather just an edge. I traded the 10 for a 12 2&3/4, 3", & 3.5 for one gun versatility, added to the fact that shells were scarce at least. I shoot 3.5 kent faststeel bb's at geese and wouldn't change it for the world. I get a good dense pattern and buy them by the case when the season goes out.
 
I have shot both the 10 ga. and 12 ga. 3 1/2". The 10 ga. is getting to be more nostalgic with the new heavy shot ammo. The 12 ga. handles better and you can get a wider variety of ammo and chokes to meet your needs. The 3 1/2" 12 ga. shell is good for shooting large steel shot or for putting a lot of shot in to the air on really windy days. The 10 ga. is a heaver gun, if you don't want to get punished, and is more of a problem when shooting out of a boat that has some movement either from trying to stand or from your hunting buddy making it move when you don't want it too. I use 3" loads mostly in the 12 ga. and save the 3 1/2" for certain conditions. Also, if you travel places the odds of purchasing 12 ga. ammo that you like will be better. Since I have owned my 10 ga. before the age steel shot, I still like to use it every now and then. Go with the better ammo for the 12 ga. and you will still be able to test your shooting ability at longer ranges that make sense.


You have to remember that knowing the ballistics of your ammo is important. The pelt energy of 2.5 ft/lbs at the range you expect to kill the duck at should be a guide to selecting ammo velocity and shot size. 7/8 oz. of steel shot has the about same number of pelts as 1 1/4 oz. lead (Data from Ballistics Products Inc.).

Since the poor performance of the first steel shot loads, I have stayed with #2 steel for most duck shooting conditions. I have placed the last decoy in the rig out 40 or 45 yards and as long as the bird was down wind and close to the water I usually kill it. Also, I have had decoys set at 30 yards or closer and was shooting into the wind. I have actually seen the cloud of steel shot, that had been slowed by a heavy head wind, drop below the bird!

The right velocity with enough pelt energy, patterns good and will work well in the conditions I am hunting in is the rule I go with when choosing the loads I want. Low priced ammo is always a temptation but, is has to have the elements that I have stated before I will buy a lot of it.

There are plenty of choices out there for want you can afford to pay for ammo, the choice is yours. Knowing the ballistics and the limitations to use it effectively is what you have to live with.

.
 
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Andy, no disrespect but reading your tag line I think with a 20 ga that'd be close to skybusting.
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That's not my tag line it just is real low on the page. I think you are right though. 25 yards could be max for a 20 ga. and a 28 ga.???

I really don't know how far out I have shot a bird. I do know what too far looks like though. I pass on birds on the fringe that are shootable all the time. I don't like to take chances. My ten gauge probably adds another 5-7 yards to my range compared to my 12, which comes in handy some days.
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For a lot of guys, 20 yards with a ten ga is skybusting.Percentage of pattern is what counts...not the diameter of the shell. A 6 or 7 1/2 hevi pellet has more retained energy at 50 yards as a BB steel...there are as many or more in a 7/8 oz load as there are BB in a 1 1/8 highspeed steel load. Just giving you some food for thought.
 
I am not sure about the 7 hevi shot's retention at 50 compared to the bb. A 4 to me would be a more likely match. Give me a little lesson on it though. This is my thoughts and there is a good possibility I am misinformed and uneducated on the hevi shot vs steel. In the old days- hum hum there use to be lead. Alot smaller shot was used then. Then the green weenies(stolen from another thread) lobbied for the steel. People figured out they needed bigger size shot to do the same thing. They also realized steel would lose it's velocity faster than lead because of it's lighter composition. Hence the magnum shells. #4 lead high brass 2&3/4 = bb 3" steel. At least that is what I cypher from the equation. I shoot bb's at passing ducks on the river within 40 yrds. I shoot decoying birds with # 4's. I shoot 3" bb at geese within 35 yards. If I shoot snows in groups, I switch to T shot with a mod. choke. Usually you get some shy birds that hang at the edge of 40-50 yrds and some people just cant wait. I mentioned a 28 or 20 at 35 yards and out is skybusting and I believe that. There is where shooting ability and the RIGHT equipment prevails over luck, but there is a fine line between luck and "skill". I can't see past the sticker-shock of hevi-shot. I have shot a box of 10 but that's all. I do shoot the premier loads at clays instead of the 3.00 cheapo's. Help me see the light(also taken from another thread)-Les
 
Its all about the remaining energy the shot has when it impacks the bird,and what the research tells us what is needed to be in the kill zone.A 28ga Mod choke will pattern the same as a 12ga,only less shot in the pattern.The heavier the shot the better velocity retention.The manufacturers increased the velocity of steel to achieve this goal.Now if you get shot that is the same weight as lead,or heavier,then there is no real advantage to elevate the velocity,much over 1300fps.I'm amazed that the Hi velocity shells pattern as well as they do.Wish there was a good lead alternative to load,that didn't cost so much.Nice Shot is $60 a Kilo.
 
Pics of my go to guns. The Ithaca10 and the Ithaca 37 in 12 gauge 2 3/4. Always take two guns for dark geese passing shots and the 12 for when the feet are down. Both purchased about 35 yrs ago and they just keep on ticking.
huntingpics087.jpg

 
You've kept those guns in good shape is why they're still tickin.
I too am not sure on the retained energy of a #7 tungsten vs BB steel. My rule to go by has been three shot sizes difference. In other words if you liked the performance of lead 5's shoot steel 2's in as fast a helping as you can get and never shot at waterfowl over 40 yards with anything. Reasons not to shoot at that range are #1 You are not likely to hit the bird and if by a small miracle you do then #2 you are likely to only cripple the poor bird.

When we first started having to shoot steel I remember only being able to get #4's in 1 1/8 oz. loads and it was really miserable stuff. Since the beginning days of non toxic laws steel shot loads have improved drastically. This new stuff ain't so bad. Learn how each load patterns in your gun (s) at the ranges you normally shoot and buy accordingly. Don't skybust or take anyone who skybusts hunting with you ever again.

My opinion,
Harry
 
I may have been a bit exuberant with the size differences and retained energy but I know I have heard BB bouncing off Geese at 30-35 yards. My house is 44' long with a 28' long garage on one end....I stand at one end and figure a 25 yard reference...A duck is looking mighty small at that range to me and to add another 15-20 yards is just crazy to shoot at waterfowl. I think most that tell you they consistantly kill ducks at 40-50 yards with their steel loads are just way off on their distance estimations. I used to set my outside dekes at 40 yards with a small fishing pole with marked line....after the ducks started stopping out there , I moved them in to 30..and then to 25.
 
Shermie I have an SP 10 Remington With a Wad Wizard supreme choke tube and it sure does a number on eiders work well and is a great waterswatting gun for cripples as you know with eiders specially late in the year but the 10s down side its heavy. But overall if your an avid seaduck hunter you apprciate a 10 all the way from the dealer to the bay I m speaking from a little experience.
Thanks Chris Goldsworthy
Gotta Love A Chessie in the salt!
 
hey guys thanks for all the great advice no where else could you get such fine advice.
sorry for not being on here as of late ive been dealing with some torn tendons in my left arm and it was hurting to type as of now im on the mend with meds and time and typing with one hand is different...

if i can swing it there will be a another 10 back in my arsenal...lol......

thanks ,
shermie
 
Hi everyone, I haven't posted in a while.... since we moved to Chicago. (Man the hunting stinks here compared to back home in MO, gots to find me a decent place!)

I read this string and had to post though.....

Just choose 2 3/4" #7's , right Mark?

Seriously, a few years ago I bought a Mag 10 from a friend, for goose hunting. Shot it a full season, and by the end of the season my back was SUPER messed up from swinging that heavy gun while setting up in a layout blind.

The next year I shot a .410, 28, 20 and 16 almost exclusively (with Bismuth that I later passed on to Sutton, in the small guages). I only bring that up to say that if they are feet down in the decoys, what difference does it make? The age old question "How dead is dead?" At 10 - 15, even 20 yards dead is dead. It takes a little discipline, but most of the guys on this forum have shot enough birds that shooting another one isn't that big of a deal, and isn't the only reason we hunt anyway.

For ducks..... why would you want to deal with a 10? As someone else posted, it's a drag trying to catch up to fast flyers with that heavy monster (though I will give you that once you get the thing going, follow through isn't a problem. Just tell your buddies to duck!) Plus the ammo is much more costly, and the limits on ducks higher, so more ammo shot.

All in all, I'd go with the smaller gun, save on the ammo price and your back and have some fun.

Chad Huff
 
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