What is the actual point of a possession limit????

tod osier

tod osier

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I understand what it CAN do, but what was the actual reason it was instituted? I've never heard or read why, but I assume it is to control harvest.

T
 
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In addition to what you mentioned I sort of assumed it was aimed to create penalties for illegal market hunters who stockpiled inventory to sell. It was probably good at helping to stop outlaws. These days for harvest control it doesn't seem like an effective tool.

Eric
 
I hope someone has a reasonable answer cause I dont know one!
I can understand Field Possession, keeps people from shooting way over the limit and claiming they are from 3 days ago or some BS.
But as it applied to your home, i just dont get it.
 
In SD it is a good way to add some funds to the state. Seems like a lot of hunters can't figure out you aren't allowed 5 days of pheasants on the fourth day of the season.

The one thing I do know about it is that nobody ever breaks it...and if you don't give 'the man' a reason to think you have broken it then it is not something easy to catch.

And this past year I didn't shoot crap so no worries here.

Tim
 
My understanding is so that if wardens are after poachers... it gives them some form ground to stand on... even if they haven't nailed them for the act of poaching
 
I rarely post here any more for reasons unrelated to the site. However this inquiry caught my attention. Few reported court opinions address the original question. However, there are two interesting cases that are, in my opinion, worth reading and relate to the subject:

U.S. v. Gilkerson, 527 F.Supp.2d 932, 2007 D.S.D. 28 (D.S.D., 2007)

and

Moresi v. State, Dept. of Wildlife and Fisheries, 552 So.2d 1259 (La. App. 3 Cir., 1989)

Most reported opinions appear to address fish, doves, and cassette tapes . . . Contrary to what one poster stated, there are in fact numerous people in this part of the world who are afield multiple days at a time. Possession limits in the field can be a real concern if you have the opportunity to spend two or three nights in a row in the marsh. Best to all.
 
Me again. I should add that the best way to come up with a fairly definitive answer is to pursue the matter through the U.S. District Court for your area with the assistance of a duck-hunting lawyer.
 
I assume that "possession limit" was placed originally to create some criteria that could be used to enforce overconsumption by the market hunters. Just an opinion.

But it does make you think about the definitions of "daily bag limit" vs. "possession limit" vs. "when is a duck no longer a duck because you ate most of it, or threw away some of it or hung on to the wings for training".

When is the duck considered "consumed" and no longer counting against your possession limit?
 
Great question. I wish I knew the exact answer but I can offer only my understanding. If you were out in the field hunting and you and you're buddy each shot a black duck then your buddy goes off into the boat to retrieve a mallard, you are in the blind with 2 black ducks -- a field possession limit.

Now if it's what is in the freezer, that would be just nuts because you can host a game feast and you are going to have more packaged birds than a 2 or 3 day limit. If I have 4 mallards aging in my garage, and went out another day and shot 4 more mallards-- I have to process the birds before I head out again.

I guess the point is to keep the harvest controled to a 2 days- forcing you to process your birds (in your primary residence freezer) before you can harvest more. When I freezer wrap my take it's dated and species identified --- just for me to remember that if it's a bufflehead I better marinate it very well.

I wish I knew more about this, because if I ever hunt out of state again I only can transport a 2 day limit.

-Jack
 
When I freezer wrap my take it's dated and species identified --- just for me to remember that if it's a bufflehead I better marinate it very well.
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Yup, everything is labeled...even non game, just too easy to loose track of how long things have been in there...or what the heck they were before they went in there. Definately alot of grey areas, I always error on the side of caution. You start calculating how much we spend "per pound" of meat...well that figure goes through the roof when you add in a lawyers cost.

So anyone know about the multi Licence thing? Do you get a possession limit form each state/providence you hunted in?

Chuck
 
Great question. I wish I knew the exact answer but I can offer only my understanding. If you were out in the field hunting and you and you're buddy each shot a black duck then your buddy goes off into the boat to retrieve a mallard, you are in the blind with 2 black ducks -- a field possession limit.

Now if it's what is in the freezer, that would be just nuts because you can host a game feast and you are going to have more packaged birds than a 2 or 3 day limit. If I have 4 mallards aging in my garage, and went out another day and shot 4 more mallards-- I have to process the birds before I head out again.

I guess the point is to keep the harvest controled to a 2 days- forcing you to process your birds (in your primary residence freezer) before you can harvest more.
Click to expand...
Jack-
Possession is twice the daily bag limit. PERIOD!
Even if the birds are processed. Meaning breasted out or made into sausage. They still must be tagged and still count as part of your possession. To take it a bit further, even if you gift the bird to a friend. Technically, they are still part of your possession. There is no gray area. It is clearly written in the NYS hunting regs.
 
Great question. I wish I knew the exact answer but I can offer only my understanding. If you were out in the field hunting and you and you're buddy each shot a black duck then your buddy goes off into the boat to retrieve a mallard, you are in the blind with 2 black ducks -- a field possession limit.

Now if it's what is in the freezer, that would be just nuts because you can host a game feast and you are going to have more packaged birds than a 2 or 3 day limit. If I have 4 mallards aging in my garage, and went out another day and shot 4 more mallards-- I have to process the birds before I head out again.

I guess the point is to keep the harvest controled to a 2 days- forcing you to process your birds (in your primary residence freezer) before you can harvest more.
Click to expand...
Jack-
Possession is twice the daily bag limit. PERIOD!
Even if the birds are processed. Meaning breasted out or made into sausage. They still must be tagged and still count as part of your possession. To take it a bit further, even if you gift the bird to a friend. Technically, they are still part of your possession. There is no gray area. It is clearly written in the NYS hunting regs.
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It may be clear in NY but it isn't clear in MN. Talk to any number of field agents and ask them what their defintiion of processed is? I'll bet you that real nice hen can I spoke with you about last year that you will get as many different answers as the number of people you ask. I've asked, didn't get a consensus.

Mark W
 
market hunting is the reason for possesion limits in my opinion, I would also think waste plays a part as well. As far as each state being different, states can only be more restrictive otherwise is 2 daily bag limits of each species and total can't exceed the aggregate daily bag limit. Gifting or cunsumption are the only ways to reduce possesion limit. here is a link to the fed rules pages 12-15 are where its covered. http://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/50_CFR_20.pdf
 
Anytime you have rules, and especially rules set by different jurisdictions, there are going to be potential conflicts. The safest way to deal with it is to assume that the more restrictive of the two jurisdictions applies. (That's better for conservation, too.)

While duck hunting has its share of management issues, the system we have works a hell of a lot better for managing multiple migratory species whose populations fluctuate a lot than anything I could dream up.

Compare it to how migratory fish are managed, and it looks like genius. As a striper fisherman, I dream of the day when stripers get regulated consistently up and down the coast the way ducks and geese are.

We should be counting our blessings that we are griping about whether we can have 3 wood ducks or 6 in the freezer instead of dealing with issues like this:

http://www.examiner.com/fish-and-wildlife-policy-in-charlotte/commercial-trawlers-slaughtering-thousands-of-striped-bass-off-the-outer-banks
 
[/QUOTE]
Jack-
Possession is twice the daily bag limit. PERIOD!
Even if the birds are processed. Meaning breasted out or made into sausage. They still must be tagged and still count as part of your possession. To take it a bit further, even if you gift the bird to a friend. Technically, they are still part of your possession. There is no gray area. It is clearly written in the NYS hunting regs.
[/QUOTE]


John,
Yep no gray area. I won't have to worry though, I can't find much in my freezer anyway. The wife hase it so well "organized" that it's a booby trap each time it's opened.

They do describe possesion termination in the NY laws, I guess all those game feast organizers are a bunch of outlaws if any waterfowl are being served. It's still a good topic to discuss.

-Jack
 
I am still trying to find when it define termination of possession as well....
HISTORY: [41 FR 31536, July 29, 1976]​
SUBPART D -- POSSESSION​
§ 20.31 Prohibited if taken in violation of Subpart C.​
No person shall at any time, by any means, or in any manner, possess or have in custody any​
migratory game bird or part thereof, taken in violation of any provision of subpart C of this part.​
HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]​
§ 20.32 During closed season.​
No person shall possess any freshly killed migratory game birds during the closed season.​
HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]​
§ 20.33 Possession limit.​
No person shall possess more migratory game birds taken in the United States than the possession​
limit or the aggregate possession limit, whichever applies.​
​
HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]​
§ 20.35 Field possession limit.​
No person shall possess, have in custody, or transport more than the daily bag limit or aggregate​
daily bag limit, whichever applies, of migratory game birds, tagged or not tagged, at or between​
the place where taken and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land transportation; or​
(b) his personal abode or temporary or transient place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird​
preservation facility; or (d) a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.
HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]​
§ 20.39 Termination of possession.​
Subject to all other requirements of this part, the possession of birds taken by any hunter shall be​
deemed to have ceased when such birds have been delivered by him to another person as a gift; or​
have been delivered by him to a post office, a common carrier, or a migratory bird preservation​
facility and consigned for transport by the Postal Service or a common carrier to some person​
other than the hunter.

Did I miss the answer?
 
Hahahaha, Travis that is classic.

Need to shoot another duck - take a poop first yuk yuk yuk.
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Yeah, I'll second that.

Guys like us will sit around and worry about the letter of the law, and in the end cook up what's in the freezer before we shoot more. Meanwhile the guys that (in this day and age) that the law would arguably still be there to curb their harvest, don't care and either fill the freezer further or stomp it into the marsh...unfortunately the possession limit, although limiting the seasons harvest for some, could actually lead to more wanton waste.

Chuck
 
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