Best Year Ever
- Thread starter joseph van wie
- Start date
mike braden
Well-known member
Kevin,
Would you be open to maybe a 5 day season early and then take the other days and add them on at the end of the usual season close? These are some of the proposals that the Barnegat Chapter of Delta is planning to propose. We are going to do a survey of "real" duck hunters, not the guys that hunt the first week of the season and see if we can work out a compromise with the season dates. We know that it won't be an easy battle, but it will certainly be a rewarding one.
I really see no need for the two week opener. Mostly resident ducks that get blown out in a few days anyway. As you know, we have three zones in NJ. All of them are closed right now. It doesn't make sense.
Would you be open to maybe a 5 day season early and then take the other days and add them on at the end of the usual season close? These are some of the proposals that the Barnegat Chapter of Delta is planning to propose. We are going to do a survey of "real" duck hunters, not the guys that hunt the first week of the season and see if we can work out a compromise with the season dates. We know that it won't be an easy battle, but it will certainly be a rewarding one.
I really see no need for the two week opener. Mostly resident ducks that get blown out in a few days anyway. As you know, we have three zones in NJ. All of them are closed right now. It doesn't make sense.
Kevin Stupp
Active member
I think that would be a great idea. Your exactly right, after a week the local ducks that are left are real skiddish. The main ducks here at that time are teal, blacks and woodies. The teal disappear at the first cold morning and you can only shoot one black duck. I'm not saying that you can't have a decent day, but I would definitely prefer to have more days late when there's more ducks.
If there is anything I can do to help, just ask.
If there is anything I can do to help, just ask.
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Neal Haarberg
Active member
Let me start by saying that I have only hunted for about 12 years now. I have also noticed that I seem to see the migration really gets underway in late January and February. If the seasons have always opened early over the past 50 years or so, have enough birds with a natural tendency to migrate earlier been removed from the population to pass that trait down to there offspring. Essentially creating a later migration? I don't know its just a thought I've had while staring at empty skys in October and November. It seems to me that not all hunters are willing to brave the elements of late season. Therefore if there more pushes of birds earlier in the season, which there may have or may not have been, more birds would get killed earlier than later. Just a thought with no data to back it up......
Capt. Larry M
Well-known member
Mike good luck to you DU chapters and NJWA have been trying for years to change the season dates. The state and Fed's answer is you guys arent all on the same page and there alot of hunters that want the early season dates, when I asked who they are they have no answers typical government answer
D
Davey W
Guest
LOL! We gotta hook up this season Charlie. Carve any decoys this year?
Kevin,
If the migrations are occuring later in the year, than shouldn't the birds be pairing up later? What scientific evidence proves that ducks are paired up in Feb? And how would science determine the effects of hunting in Feb? The number of ducks in this area in Feb are INSANE. And that is not the spring migration. These are older birds who migrate only after ice pushes them. While we risk being froze out with a later season, its a risk I'd be willing to take. I know places that never freeze.
mike braden
Well-known member
Larry,
According to Jimmy and Wes, NJWA hasn't been trying to change this. At least not with any serious intention. This is why we hoe that the survey "proves" a little what we are really saying. This is not going to go easy and we know it. It is going to take a joint collaboration with the Atlantic Flyway. We are counting on Delta Waterfowl to help the other chapters in other states to be on the same page. I do not know one "legitimate" duck hunter who wants our season to remain intact.
If anyone can do it, my bet is with Jimmy.
According to Jimmy and Wes, NJWA hasn't been trying to change this. At least not with any serious intention. This is why we hoe that the survey "proves" a little what we are really saying. This is not going to go easy and we know it. It is going to take a joint collaboration with the Atlantic Flyway. We are counting on Delta Waterfowl to help the other chapters in other states to be on the same page. I do not know one "legitimate" duck hunter who wants our season to remain intact.
If anyone can do it, my bet is with Jimmy.
D
Davey W
Guest
Jimmy has experience with these politics and he's the most hardcore duck hunter I've ever met. Not pulling his leg, but if anyone knows the angles for getting progress with this its him. We need people on board with Delta though.
Rich Newman
Active member
Get ready there's still lots of local birds here in Ontario. You can't shoot them sitting in front of your computer! -2 Celcius tonight,
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Bob B
Well-known member
Davey,
you guys can do what you want. But I dont believe in pushing the season harder in the late Jan\Feb area. I dont mind a bit of a change but I feel strongly that we are hunters for sport, not subsistence, and therefor if you need to fill your bag to have fun make the effort to travel North or North West to do it. Adding pressure and days at the year end only lowers your chances for the next year by taking birds that are in the highest stress due to the weather and lack of forage and the closest to breeding for the next season. Big deal you see a bunch after its closed! Those are the seed stock for next year.
And before you cry fowl on a warm season loving hunter, I have sunk a boat breaking ice to get to the spot where the X was. Built boats, carved decoys and trained dogs. My fathers best friend died hunting late season sea ducks with his son. And I am teaching any kid I find to take up the hunting and shooting tradition.
Thoughtfully in disagreement
Bob
you guys can do what you want. But I dont believe in pushing the season harder in the late Jan\Feb area. I dont mind a bit of a change but I feel strongly that we are hunters for sport, not subsistence, and therefor if you need to fill your bag to have fun make the effort to travel North or North West to do it. Adding pressure and days at the year end only lowers your chances for the next year by taking birds that are in the highest stress due to the weather and lack of forage and the closest to breeding for the next season. Big deal you see a bunch after its closed! Those are the seed stock for next year.
And before you cry fowl on a warm season loving hunter, I have sunk a boat breaking ice to get to the spot where the X was. Built boats, carved decoys and trained dogs. My fathers best friend died hunting late season sea ducks with his son. And I am teaching any kid I find to take up the hunting and shooting tradition.
Thoughtfully in disagreement
Bob
MLBob Furia
Well-known member
Wow, "Real duck hunters" & "Legitimate duck hunters" Kind of reminds me of Oh, Brother
Wharvey Gal 2: "But you ain't bona fide."
Bwahahahahahaha.
Wharvey Gal 2: "But you ain't bona fide."
Bwahahahahahaha.
mike braden
Well-known member
Bob B - Loss of nesting habitat and predators have "killed" more ducks that any duck hunter could ever wish for. A simple shift in the season will not be the demise of the avian species. I am not a numbers hunter, never was, but there is nothing wrong with having a little gravy with the mashed potatoes. Afterall, deer hunters hunt during the RUT don't they? Turkey hunters try to fool that ol' Tom for some loving only to get a head full of #5 shot. So I don't see too much wrong with duck hunters hunting during "prime time" as well.
In thoughtfull disagreement as well :0)
I appreciate you expressing your views....
In thoughtfull disagreement as well :0)
I appreciate you expressing your views....
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D
Davey W
Guest
Couldn't have said it better. Its not about numbers, its about opportunity.
peter lowe
Member
I remember reading that in a comparision among the flyways the whole Atlantic flyway had 3% of the countries puddle ducks. Yep thats right 3 %. We had slightly over 50% of the diving ducks though and I'm not sure if sea ducks got lumped in with that. That 3 % really puts things into perspective if you're pursuing puddle ducks in the Atlantic Flyway. Thats a good reason to make it a year round sport with decoys and boats and retrievers and the like.
MLBob Furia
Well-known member
Interesting. Here's another view; it's dated ('05) but it does present some long term data:
http://www.madduck.org/breakaway
Bob B
Well-known member
Mike
I am no scientist but I did stay at a university for a year or two in the resource management department.
Deer and turkeys are not migratory species. No comparison.
You will find not a single argument from me on the loss of critical habitat for many of the species we hunt.
But I just dont buy the argument that we should be pounding the marshes late in the season to help fill a guys game strap so he can show his buddies on the world wide web. He sure isn't feeding his family on ducks at a half pound of meat each.
There is not a shred of evidence, that other than snows we have a game resource in waterfowl that is creating a burden on modern society to the level that we have to go the route of baited hunts or shooting after hours or with unplugged guns.
These are not deer on the Merit parkway or snows eating the tundra to mud.
I almost cant believe I am having to carry this bag in this discussion since no one loves a late season slam job more than me. But I do understand the fact that those days will be better for my long term hunting if they are few and far between for me and the rest of us.
Respectfully.
Bob
I am no scientist but I did stay at a university for a year or two in the resource management department.
Deer and turkeys are not migratory species. No comparison.
You will find not a single argument from me on the loss of critical habitat for many of the species we hunt.
But I just dont buy the argument that we should be pounding the marshes late in the season to help fill a guys game strap so he can show his buddies on the world wide web. He sure isn't feeding his family on ducks at a half pound of meat each.
There is not a shred of evidence, that other than snows we have a game resource in waterfowl that is creating a burden on modern society to the level that we have to go the route of baited hunts or shooting after hours or with unplugged guns.
These are not deer on the Merit parkway or snows eating the tundra to mud.
I almost cant believe I am having to carry this bag in this discussion since no one loves a late season slam job more than me. But I do understand the fact that those days will be better for my long term hunting if they are few and far between for me and the rest of us.
Respectfully.
Bob
MLBob Furia
Well-known member
Exactly why I posted the link to that article on Madduck. (not that I'm always in agreement with the viewpoints that have been posted there).
Comparing the way we hunt waterfowl ( a resource most assuredly in decline on the Atlantic Flyway due to a combination of factors ) with hunting seasons for turkey and deer populations that are booming, oversimplifies things. I don't think it can be said that there would be no impact from extending the season on a resource in decline. But there's no doubt there are other factors pressuring the resource as well.
Keep in mind, we all try to evaluate the best conditions for getting out, and what ducks might be taken under certain cinditions. We have early splits in Ohio & Indiana, but for years no one got real serious 'til Thanksgiving rolled around anyway. Last year's mid-December freeze-up out here carried right through the rest of January (ie: carried through the season), and eliminated a lot of the places I normally would want to access in a duckboat. Sometimes wind & water conditions are perfect; sometimes not. Couldn't blame any of that on the Feds. Fact of the matter is: Sometimes you eat the duck, & sometimes the duck heads on down the flyway while you have to be at work ;-).
Did I mention I'm retired, and haven't hunted on a weekend for the past 3 seasons? Come to think of it, I ought to get those weekend days I skip added back at the end of the season ;-) ;-)
Comparing the way we hunt waterfowl ( a resource most assuredly in decline on the Atlantic Flyway due to a combination of factors ) with hunting seasons for turkey and deer populations that are booming, oversimplifies things. I don't think it can be said that there would be no impact from extending the season on a resource in decline. But there's no doubt there are other factors pressuring the resource as well.
Keep in mind, we all try to evaluate the best conditions for getting out, and what ducks might be taken under certain cinditions. We have early splits in Ohio & Indiana, but for years no one got real serious 'til Thanksgiving rolled around anyway. Last year's mid-December freeze-up out here carried right through the rest of January (ie: carried through the season), and eliminated a lot of the places I normally would want to access in a duckboat. Sometimes wind & water conditions are perfect; sometimes not. Couldn't blame any of that on the Feds. Fact of the matter is: Sometimes you eat the duck, & sometimes the duck heads on down the flyway while you have to be at work ;-).
Did I mention I'm retired, and haven't hunted on a weekend for the past 3 seasons? Come to think of it, I ought to get those weekend days I skip added back at the end of the season ;-) ;-)
mike braden
Well-known member
Bob - I do appreciate this discussion and your views. Is it your position that there shouldn't be any late season hunting? Is this because you feel that more birds will be shot and then there will be declining ducks numbers? If this is the case, would you be willing to agree on late season hunting if you could only shoot drakes? Or, are you just against late season hunting all together? Just trying to see what your breaking point is.
In my area, late season hunting is usually for the "real" and "legitimate" duck hunters (apologies to MLBob). So if we were to look at it statistically - less hunters - but more birds being shot by fewer hunters - that would/may just be a wash.
In terms of hunters pounding all the birds in the marsh. In my area, it seems that there are more restricted areas than allowable areas in State, Federal and private land. The birds know where it is safe and where it isn't. One such WMA, it is legal to hunt one side of the road and illegal to hunt the other side. Guess where all the birds are?
Late season is also dangerous due to colder temps and water temps. Is that a reason to restrict it? Yeah, people die duck hunting. Not sure if there are more deaths later in the year but I am sure that someone has that statistic some where. But, people also die bike riding, four wheeling....hell I am sure someone has died trying to deep fry a frozen turkey but it goes with the territory.
I respect the animals that we hunt. I believe in preserving what we have. It must be managed b/c man is here and we screw everything up environmentally. But, I don't see how we are going to have a negative effect on the ducks for a few extra days when we ONLY have 60 and the western U.S. Has over a hundred.....
In my area, late season hunting is usually for the "real" and "legitimate" duck hunters (apologies to MLBob). So if we were to look at it statistically - less hunters - but more birds being shot by fewer hunters - that would/may just be a wash.
In terms of hunters pounding all the birds in the marsh. In my area, it seems that there are more restricted areas than allowable areas in State, Federal and private land. The birds know where it is safe and where it isn't. One such WMA, it is legal to hunt one side of the road and illegal to hunt the other side. Guess where all the birds are?
Late season is also dangerous due to colder temps and water temps. Is that a reason to restrict it? Yeah, people die duck hunting. Not sure if there are more deaths later in the year but I am sure that someone has that statistic some where. But, people also die bike riding, four wheeling....hell I am sure someone has died trying to deep fry a frozen turkey but it goes with the territory.
I respect the animals that we hunt. I believe in preserving what we have. It must be managed b/c man is here and we screw everything up environmentally. But, I don't see how we are going to have a negative effect on the ducks for a few extra days when we ONLY have 60 and the western U.S. Has over a hundred.....