Richard Lathrop
Well-known member
This senseless engagement is purity tests is getting old. Your life go live it.
Rick
Rick
Saw this a few months back on the hunt quietly IG account....
- Thread starter tod osier
- Start date
Learn how to properly quote someone to indicate who you are talking to.
I'll assume you mean me, so I'll respond... I'm living my life, trust me. Pure as fuck.
Tod,
Your abusive and condescending view of others says alot more of you than of me for hiring a guide. This thread started with your rant about excessive charity CEO pay. Is it because you felt underpaid as a college professor? Admittedly life is not always fair and I as much as anyone would love to get my hand on one of those $100,000 tags. As Henry stated, we have all made our life choices. Sometimes those choices mean that you are rewarded with more money but not necessarily importance. Nobody would debate that the finest doctor does more for societal health than the lowly plumber, ie cholera, dysentery, etc.
Yes, you can count me among the "Deplorables" for hiring a guide but I did what I could with my life and I am not a least bit jealous or indignant of others who have done it differently. You will be relieved to know that there is still hope for me. Heather and I just got our SD Black Hills turkey tags for this spring. No guide. RM
I think it just comes down to preference. I work 60 hour work weeks, but I hunt hard and put more miles on my truck than I ever care to admit. Ive been known to wear out trucks before I even have them paid off. I say it all the time, I work hard but I play harder. Most people think im 10 years older I am because I dont know how to sit still. I just wouldnt have it any other way though.... the last thing I want to do is call myself successful because I paid someone else to do all the work for me. I dont judge those that do pay and dont want to put the time in, but dont come into a scenario and put heat on the guide if you arent as successful as you hoped to be. Thats why these guides feel they have to do what they do so they can please those that are entitled to this mindset they are showing up and shooting limits or harvesting because they paid the guide.
Abusive like calling out someone's salary trying to shame them? Which is funny because I don't think you know what you don't know.
It actually didn't start with a rant from me (look up the definition of rant). I posted a screen pic and mused in a non-ranting way that I found CEO pay hard to swallow. The first rants here were yours. The posts are there for all to scroll to.
Do you know that I've been comfortable choosing to take 1/2 of my tenured professor salary for decades while I raised a family and hunted and fished my ass off. You really aren't very good at arguing on the internet.
I would not take a $1,000,000 outfitted hunt if given to me.
I would actually consider making the argument that the plumber played as much of a role fighting cholera than did the doctors of the time, but I do love a good argument.
Having come from a blue collar background, I would also never consider a plumber or any of the trades "lowly", which is just weird for you to say.
Best of luck with your tags, I bet it will be awesome.
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
I gotta say this is one helluva a thread.
I've been chuckling and smiling since I read what Tod wrote "you pissed your life away at your job." Yes sir I'm guilty of many things but not That. It's good to see it in print. Many years ago my mentor told me "You live to work (a job) or you work (a job) to live. It's your decision."
Please excuse my interruption and continue the spirited discussion.
I've been chuckling and smiling since I read what Tod wrote "you pissed your life away at your job." Yes sir I'm guilty of many things but not That. It's good to see it in print. Many years ago my mentor told me "You live to work (a job) or you work (a job) to live. It's your decision."
Please excuse my interruption and continue the spirited discussion.
Stick around I'm sure we can find something that I'll argue with you about you about.
I'm staying. Well, might need to go out for another load of popcorn but I'll be back soon.
I think as long as a guide is hired without the expectation of killing... then you are ok in my book. Again, its not the way I like doing things, but to each their own. I only raise this issue because this is 100% why the guide services in Tx are doing what they are doing. If they can land lock everything, they can ensure the kill when they have clients day after day.
Same goes for guides in the big game world. If they can gobble up the landowner tags for a fraction of the price they are selling them, then they can turn a profit as well and ensure an animal is killed, as long as the hunter can shoot straight. 10 years ago, cow elk tags could be had all day for $400-$500. Now its cheaper to have a cow butchered for the freezer. Its just a nasty nasty cycle thats kind of got out of hand is all.
@HenryHawthorne do yourself a favor though. Once the boat is built, look at areas of the country you want to explore. Really see if you can find somewhere you think would hold birds. Just go and scout a new body of water once or twice, without any intel from anywhere else than yourself and see if you can have success. You will truly see what Todd and myself are talking about. There is just a special feeling you get knowing you leaned on absolutely no one else to have success. I enjoy hunting by myself more sometimes. just me and the dog. Sure i like chopping it up with friends, but I have no problem sitting in the outdoors by myself.
Please lord jesus let me draw a couple animals on March 18 when the draw results come out lol. Price of beef is WAY too expensive to fill a freezer anymore.
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Tod I will have to disagree with your view on anyone that uses a guide is not a hunter or less of a hunter (paraphrased).
People are not less of a man because they hired a mechanic to fix their car or to change the oil. If the same argument were applied then I imagine you'd say that person should t pay for that mechanics experience, know-how, and work but should learn it themselves and then do it themselves.
I could easily change my oil and stuff, sometimes I do sometimes I pay someone else. Depends on time and situation.
Now say with a boat charter, I have no way to make enough money to buy a boat that could make it through Oregon inlet and out to the ocean nor the time to learn a boat that size and where and how to ocean fish. Am I not allowed to enjoy that experience by using a guide and charter to get me out there?
Am I less of a fisherman because I would use that service?
when I had a work trip in Kodiak and got to hunt, am I less of a hunter because my coast guard friend and his dad helped me kill a Sitka? They essentially guided me without being a guide. They showed me places to go and how it's effective to hunt, as it's way different than flat land here. So I went with them and then a couple times by myself and then together again when I finally killed one. By the logic you typed out then I would be less of a hunter for having them "guide" me.
People are not less of a man because they hired a mechanic to fix their car or to change the oil. If the same argument were applied then I imagine you'd say that person should t pay for that mechanics experience, know-how, and work but should learn it themselves and then do it themselves.
I could easily change my oil and stuff, sometimes I do sometimes I pay someone else. Depends on time and situation.
Now say with a boat charter, I have no way to make enough money to buy a boat that could make it through Oregon inlet and out to the ocean nor the time to learn a boat that size and where and how to ocean fish. Am I not allowed to enjoy that experience by using a guide and charter to get me out there?
Am I less of a fisherman because I would use that service?
when I had a work trip in Kodiak and got to hunt, am I less of a hunter because my coast guard friend and his dad helped me kill a Sitka? They essentially guided me without being a guide. They showed me places to go and how it's effective to hunt, as it's way different than flat land here. So I went with them and then a couple times by myself and then together again when I finally killed one. By the logic you typed out then I would be less of a hunter for having them "guide" me.
You are so full of it with the popcorn like you are an observer. More like going out to get some more fuel for the fire.
Here is my response... I think some could to take it to heart. A person is not less of a man because they choose to go to a mechanic, they are less of a mechanic because they go to a mechanic. No one's masculinity has been challenged. If you don't use a wrench to are still a man, but you are not a mechanic. If you use a guide and think it is pure hunting, you are not much of a hunter.
Going with a friend is different like it is different to buy a hooker for an evening than it is to go on a date.
You may feel that way, but you would be wrong.
Okay this is the piece you have been leaving out. With that last response where i said it looked like you view your way is the only way is how the posts have been coming off. This comment is what is needed to show the basis of why you are saying those things.
Yes if someone goes into using a guide with the expectation that it makes them a pure hunter is sorely wrong. It is a tool basically that is used for hunting that has become distorted more and more with the age of influencers.
You need a fire to pop it. I'm stokin' some coals just now, ill be back to a blaze soon.
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
Tod,
You and I have already been down that road thankfully. Live and Learn.
At my age and at this point in life I really don't have the time to waste arguing as in Fuck That. I do find that others arguing and getting their blood pressure and dander up very entertaining... in small doses. To be very good at something is to be obsessed & passionate about it. I still am but past arguing.
Best regards
Vince
"It is, of course, the first recourse of every elitist to see social barbarism in others".
Graham Joyce
Wow, I really apologize if that is how you took my comment. I have no impression that I've contributed more to society, and sincerely doubt that is true. My simple point was that I had choices to make and made them based on my priorities at the time. No excuses offered nor intended, just simple facts of (my) life.
Well, that is sort of the point of building the boat, training the dog, etc., etc. And I have done all that (though certainly to a lesser extent than you and Tod). I grew up hunting that way, and early in my career when living in Mississippi (when I had more time and less funds) I absolutely did that in the Delta. Then got in with a group of older guys who had some land in the Delta and did the blind building/maintenance, scouting, and land prep part of it. I enjoyed all of it and learned a tremendous amount and look forward to doing more again - but never as much as the actual hunting (and fellowship) so when my time got more restricted I chose not to give up hunting but, in certain circumstances, to hire out scouting and property acquisition sp I could maximize my time hunting.
I've been making duck calls for nearly 30 years now, and can't remember the last duck I killed that wasn't called with my own call or one made by a friend/fellow call maker. I certainly don't think that makes me more of a hunter than someone who chooses to hunt with an off-the-shelf call orna callncustom-made for them by someoneelse. I just get enjoyment out of using my own calls. I suspect one day I'll follow William's and Don's lead and make efforts with my own decoys, too (or maybe my own flocking on purchased decoys). Will that make me more of a hunter? Hell no, but I'll get a kick out of it.
To be clear, I'm not offended nor is my dander up about any of this. The only reason I contributed is all of the hammering on guides (and, subsequently, people who use guides). The perception I'm getting from many comments is that all guides are glory hounds, resource-abusers, and in it for nothing but a buck - and that all who use guides are folks who just want a kill and a picture. Given what's available to see in social media and online and what goes around in some circles, I can understand that perception. I abhor the same folks you do that create that perception, and 100% share the viewpoint that they are not hunters.
But, to apply that to ALL guides and hunters is simply and factually incorrect - whether due to ignorance or, and I suspect the latter, being provocative (I have the same proclivity for argument sometimes so recognize that in myself).
Ultimately, this is simply not a competitive thing for me. I could care less whether someone thinks they are a better or bigger hunter than I am. I suspect most are. I hunt because I grew up in the culture and love getting out in nature (alone and with people) in pursuit of game. I fish because I grew up on the water and love being out there and learning more about my quarry. If I can accelerate and amplify my learning and enjoyment by hiring someone with more experience and expertise, I'm all for it. I look at guides much as, Tod, you look at college professors - and fortunately most of the guides I've ever known (granted, it isnt a huge sample) have been a lot like good professors/coaches.